Tony Tucker vs Rocky Marciano

I get it.....no one's on Pluto!!!

 

Michael Spinks, Michael Moorer and Evander Holyfield all moved up to heavyweight between 1985-1990 and all won the linear heavyweight title. These were guys who at one point in time weighed 175-180. One of them - Moorer, didn’t exactly have a great chin either. Even Guys like Bert Cooper and Mike Hunter ascended to the heavyweight division of the 80s and 90s and had some degree of success there... Hell Jimmy Ellis started out his career as a middle ( and not a very good one either ) and entered the golden age of the 70s as its heavyweight champion... Keep in mind we’re not asking Rocky Marciano to beat Mike Tyson or Lennox Lewis... we’re talking about him possibly winning a decision over Tony Tucker - a decent but over promoted contender with a heavily padded record and long history of underwhelming performances....

 

Again, are you being willfully ignorant?

Physical limitations.

Mike Spinks 6-2 1/2, 76" reach. Fast. Balanced. Great fundamentals.
Holyfield 6-2 1/2, 78" reach. Fast. Balanced. Great fundamentals. Great combo puncher.
Mike Moorer 6-2, 78" reach. Fast. Balanced. Great fundamentals. Great combo puncher.

Rocky Marciano 5-11, 68" reach. Slow. Off-balance. Lousy fundamentals. Swung for the fences before thinking about his next punch.

And again, Spinks, Holy and Moorer had no problems being a comfortable 205+ with flexibility, speed and stamina.

Where is the disconnect here?

 

My only “ disconnect “ here is how you can build up a fringe level guy to be some sort of technical genius of boundless talent... Marciano for all his shortcummings has stamina, chin, heart and workrate to survive Tony Tucker’s non aggressive tactics and the punch output to stay a bit busier. Do you think the judges are going to be more impressed with Tucker’s holding and pot shotting or marciano’s constant drive to the inside while throwing barrages of shots ?? And make no mistake, while Tony could take a good punch, Rocky’s power won’t go unnoticed or unfelt.. Could I be wrong ? Sure.. maybe Rocky suffers a cut and gets stopped. Or perhaps Tucker FINALLY decides to go out and actually EARN a win. But as things stand I have to weigh the scales of probability based on what I ACTUALLY saw of these two men which was:

1. Rocky was never stopped

And

2. Tucker never fought with inspiration.

 

@mr. magoo : To complete what seamus said: Rocky was an attrition puncher relying on his condition over his (mostly) past it opponents. He does not have a 6`2" frame to carry that weight plus keeping his workrate up like he did at 178-185lb.
Holyfield was extremly trimmed @190 too and Moorer couldn´t afford 175 anymore. On that basis, both of these guys were a tad bigger than Rocky.

Another thing is: These guys proved something @HW. In true history. Beat opponents two weightclasses over LHW-CW. Marciano didn´t. His opponents median weight is under 190lb. Thats not even a trimmed 190lb CW! Let that sink in for a moment. None of the guys he fought in his championchip days would fight in a 215lb HW devision.
Holyfield, Moorer and Spinks proved they could make it. All of them pure technical boxers.

 

Reasonable post. And I’ve used similar arguments against Marciano in other debates but mostly when sizing him up to other great heavyweights and not someone of Tony Tucker’s caliber. I suppose anything’s possible

 

Yeah I have eye balls, but you sir are in a minority. there was a recent poll about who would win beteeen Rocky and Andy Ruiz. Guess what? the majority voted for Marciano to win.

 

How about Orlin Norris? His 5’9” frame and 69” reach was similar to Rocky. clearly Orlins natural weight was no heavier than Marciano as proved by the fact that Norris dropped to 189lb After beating several heavyweights...including Tony Tucker!

 

David Tua. He was as short as Marciano, not especially fast, good power and wasn't much of a boxer. Nothing special defensively.

 

But we are talking about the actual Marciano that fought,not one who had added weight.Unless you think the likes of Ellis scaling 185lbs,Rockys average weight, Moorer,and Spinks would be able to beat the heavyweights they later did? The blatant elephant in the room here is Spinks ,Moorer,and Holyfield added muscle and strength to make them able to compete with the bigger guys.If they thought they could have been successful without the added weight they would have fought as they originally were!
1.Moorer put on 39lbs of muscle and at 6'2" with a 78" reach he could carry the weight effectively
2.Spinks added 30lbs and at 6.'2.5"with a 76" reach, he was able to function the same.
3.Ellis came up from160lbs first to 176 lbs, then all the way to205lbs and he was 6'1" with a 76" reach.
4.Holyfield went to218lbs ,is 6'2.5" and has a reach of 78" , 10 inches more than Marciano.
Marciano was 5'10.5" and around 185/187lbs with a 68" reach. You are asking him to do what those guys did without the added weight height and reach they possessed.

If you want to hypothesize what he would have achieved had he added 15/20lbs, that is for another thread, but he wouldn't have been any taller ,nor had any longer arms! Nor would he have been any more mobile or faster!

 

How many heavyweight punchers did he face?

 

Faster than Marciano

 

Tua turned pro at 19 he scaled 201lb and at 20 was 204lbs ,he was a naturally big man, and he has 2 inches of reach on Marciano.
At 25 ,when he had matured and scored perhaps his most impressive win,the 1 rd ko over Ruiz, he was 225lbs.Forty pounds heavier than Marciano.

 

Yes Tua was very similar to Orlin Norris.
He turned pro at 199lb aged 20. Grew to 227lb contender (who beat Greg Page, Renaldo snipes and Tony Tucker) all within four years as an exclusive heavyweight then aged 25 Norris dropped to 189 on a whim to become a cruiserweight.

Just like that.

And to think Marciano was taller than Norris and Tua...

 

Marciano had some wins over 200+ pound guys.