Bob Arum: Manny Pacquiao Is The 2010—2019 Fighter of the Decade

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Pakkuman, Jan 9, 2020.


  1. Pakkuman

    Pakkuman I'm not hot. I'm just BIG. banned Full Member

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    “Fighter of the decade? I say Manny Pacquiao… because of [his] body of work throughout the decade, when he fought regularly; he fought all those fighters. He was the one guy that [during] the years that Mayweather retired or didn’t fight - he carried the sport. I don’t even think it is close; I don’t think anybody can compare to Manny as fighter of the decade.

    It is still Manny Pacquiao fighting. And that’s the important thing whether he’s fighting for Top Rank or fighting for another promotion, it’s still Manny Pacquiao in the ring. Clearly, he’s the fighter of the decade. Manny Pacquiao belongs to the greats and will go down with the greats."
     
  2. Tramell

    Tramell Hypocrites Love to Pray & Be Seen. Mathew 6:5 Full Member

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    I state my usual; no he isn't.
    1st fight of 2010 was a rare snoozer from him vs Clottey. He won yes, but not in spectacular fashion for FOTD. In fact it was one of the trippiest stats I've seen.

    Pac was credited for landing 20% of his punches. That's horrible in terms of accuracy.
    Now in terms of workrate? He threw a career high 1,231. How is that not the definition of ineffective aggression? Even if we throw a curve & say stats was off by at least 5 landed a round, that still shows a fighter who doesn't appear to be very accurate, let alone a fierce puncher.
    246 landed and only 13 jabs meant everything was a power punch & did Clottey wobble? See this is where the "he's a small guy excuse kicks in for some."

    Example of a high output high connect rate fighter Spence landed 51% of his 464 vs Garcia. If Pac had that I'd say gr8 way to start the decade off, he didn't so it is just a win coming against a guy who got the fight by losing his previous fight.

    Next fight of decade vs Margarito A catchweight fight for a title in a division neither did anything to deserve. rito went in 1-2 getting drubbed by Shane.

    Next up SHane a solid name who got a fight with Pac by losing unanimous to Floyd and a draw vs the amazing Segio Mora. Shane couldn't get win over him but Brian Vera him two times once before the other after. We're talking a 26-16 Vera.

    Next up JMM a great win. Some say he lost, I had Pac up by a point. Gr8 win!
    Bradley bad decision, still it is recorded as a loss. FOTD aren't allowed too many losses unless we rewrite the definition.

    Final match with JMM he gets KTFO'd so a fighter of the decade can lose twice in a row? one by being put to sleep?

    Next up is Brandon Rios. Decent fighter very entertaining who got his chance at Pac by losing his previous fight to Alvarado.

    Avenges is point loss to Bradley in top fashion followed up with Algieri a good fighter who not only lost to Pac, but next fight to Khan then stopped by Spence. Those losses IMO kinda dropped him in terms of relevance for Pac's resume as a candidate for FOTD.

    Mayweather fight he threw pretty much the same amount of punches he always does against counter punchers which is--not much. Then demeaned the whole debacle by saying he was injured. well too bad.
    From 2102-2015 that's 3 losses. He's pretty much out the competition IMO. Unless he beats the tar out of some top P4Pers but instead a trilogy with Bradley. I'm still not sure how that came about, nonetheless a good win.

    Outhustled against a game Horn. Again I don't cry when my top fighter gets robbed, a loss is a loss, so that is now 4 times.

    Mathysse a solid name who seamed past his best. Even in his prime Pac would've won, so not much gained other than proving Pac has longevity.

    And so fighter of the decade? fight Broner who did what to get the opportunity? a loss and a draw. How do I credit Pac? because Broner is young? He was 0-1-1 going in. Sham fight.

    Thurman, solid win. Beat the young man up, sidelined or not this fight was a testimony to how durable, hungry, fast & strong Pac is. Not a testimony for FOTD.
     
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  3. Boxing First

    Boxing First youtube.com/channel/UCM4RAP57DFWBjQQn2E-MDVw Full Member

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    Cant argue with much of that assessment to be honest. This is Bob being typical Bob always going to back his own fighters!
     
  4. Pakkuman

    Pakkuman I'm not hot. I'm just BIG. banned Full Member

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    Uh, Manny Pacquiao is a PBC/Haymon fighter. In fact, when Pacquiao went ahead w/ the Matthysse fight WITHOUT Arum, people were saying that Arum was gonna start leaking all sorts of secrets and negativity about Pacquiao. Things are defintely not peachy between Arum and Pacquiao. Cordial, but that's it.
     
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  5. Boxing First

    Boxing First youtube.com/channel/UCM4RAP57DFWBjQQn2E-MDVw Full Member

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    But for the decade were talking about he was under the guidance of Arum. Only the back end did he fall into PBC/Haymon. This is clearly Arum shouting look at me I promoted the best fighter of the last decade.
     
  6. PH|LLA

    PH|LLA VIP Member Full Member

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    Apart from Thurman really nothing too noteworthy there.

    But I disagree with the Clottey assessment is the goal to be accurate or to win fights? Pac didn't lose a single round. Doesn't matter if he was accurate. His agression was effective because it controlled the fight and prevented Clottey from doing anything.

    Prime Pac tears through this decade in a way this past prime version couldn't come close. I think he has 1 knockout in the whole 10 years. How many KOs did Pac have from 2000-2009?
     
  7. Boxing First

    Boxing First youtube.com/channel/UCM4RAP57DFWBjQQn2E-MDVw Full Member

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    I agree with the Clottey comment, Always difficult for a fighter to land anything when the other guy comes to survive. Clottey turtle shelled for 12 rounds so the punch stats don't really tell the full story.
     
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  8. Pakkuman

    Pakkuman I'm not hot. I'm just BIG. banned Full Member

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    The Clottey win is a highly underrated win. Clottey was an extremely durable guy, built like a tank, hit hard, and dwarfed Pacquiao. And he was a guy w/ a watertight defense that granted, did lower his output. That Pacquiao completely shut him out and rendered him a defensive statue was an impressive feat. Lackluster on the surface due to a lack of drama, but keeping someone like that at bay is impressive. Can you imagine another fighter the size of Pacquiao forcing a guy the size of Clottey into a perpetual shell? No one beat Clottey like that. Spence was significantly bigger than Mikey. If Clottey was the size of say, Zlaticanin, and Pac threw 1,200 punches to no effect, then you can say something.

    Antonio Margarito was another criminally underrated win. Margarito came into the fight in the best shape of his life. He was absolutely shredded and terrifying at the weigh in. On fight night, he enjoyed a 17 pound weight advantage over Pacquiao. It was one of Pacquiao's hardest fights, landed him in the hospital, and took something out of him. Pacquiao was shaking during the post fight interview and said that he was "lucky" to have won. Later on, in 2019, Pacquiao went further and said that he was still amazed that he "survived" the fight. I will be honest in saying this — had Pacquiao not landed that critical uppercut in the 3rd that broke Margarito's orbital bone, Pacquiao might not have seen the final bell. Margarito looked less than impressive in subsequent outings because of his eye and then his punch resistance eventually left him. Not many welterweights would have beaten Margarito that night and no 135-140 would have survived him.

    The Shane win was impressive. Pacquiao's all out war style greatly benefited the bigger, harder hitting man. Shane begged for a war, but then ran for survival. That Shane was knocked out and shut out for 12 rounds was crazy.

    Rios was Pacquiao's first come back fight after a year after the brutal KO loss to Marquez. Pacquiao schooled him and put on a masterclass performance w/ his boxing skills and ring IQ. 12-0 victory. No one ever beaten Rios so emphatically.

    Algieri was an excellent win. Pacquiao dominated him 11-1. Algieri ran Khan close. Some say Khan lost. And Algieri boxed Pacquiao on the backfoot, but stood toe-to-toe w/ Spence. Had Algieri fought Pacquiao the same way, it would have been lights out.

    The JMM fights were brutal. Pacquiao was fighting a guy who was a stylistic nightmare for him... and chemically enhanced.

    Horn was a blatant robbery. Matthysse was a solid win and I agree, Pacquiao would have murked him at any point of their respective careers.

    The Broner win was an excellent one. Broner's own worst enemy is himself. When he lets his hands go, he has a chance to beat ANYONE. People hate the guy, so he gets very little credit. For example, when Broner decided to let his hands go, he almost knocked out Maidana (who was drunk and surviving in the last round), hurt Mikey (last round), and dropped Porter (last round). Broner stood his ground w/ Maidana, Mikey, and Porter, but literally ran for his life from Pacquiao whilst staring down the clock. Maidana hurt Broner, but Broner never went into survival mode. A 39 year old Pacquiao shut Broner out 12-0.

    Thurman was an incredible victory. Pacquiao was 40, gave up a significant advantages in size/weight/age/power. Thurman had the deepest resume of the division outside of Pacquiao. Haters point to Lopez rocking him, but it was a comeback fight and Thurman won a minimum of 9 rounds and got caught. It's boxing.

    Now we come to Mayweather... How can you single out the injury, which has long been proven to be true from sparring partners, hints from Ellerbe himself, and a world renown sports surgeon who confirmed the injury and did the surgery, and not mention the fact that Mayweather was in all likelihood on PEDs? Mayweather was 150 thirty days out from fight night and showed up to the weigh in in phenomenal shape w/ zero signs of dehydration/drainage (sunken eyes and cheeks). Then he received 750 ml of IV fluids the same night and was given a TUE 17 days later? Mayweather was on PEDs and Pac was injured — he took a year off to recover.

    Seems to me like you pick out certain details, but leave the critical ones out. And when you say a loss is a loss, does that mean you don't rate Duran highly all time? He does have 16 losses...

    I say Pacquiao is the Fighter of the Decade for the following reasons:

    His losses all come w/ asterisks — Bradley (robbery), Horn (robbery), Mayweather (PEDs + injury), and Marquez (PEDs). Too many red flags w/ Mayweather and Marquez.

    Pacquiao pitched complete game shut outs against Rios, Vargas, Matthysse, Mosley, Clottey, and Broner. That's 67 rounds. He pitched near shut outs against Algieri (11-1) and Margarito (11-1).

    I had him beating Mayweather. He authored the 2 most significant sequences of the match — stunning Floyd twice and ripping him w/ hard combos. The rest of the way, Pacquiao was tit for tat for punches landed w/ most of Mayweather's punches being glancing blows. Pacquiao came forward all night and Mayweather initiated 20+ clinches. Neither guy did much, but Pacquiao did more.

    Pacquiao broke records:
    • 5th time welterweight champion
    • 5th time lineal champion
    • Oldest welterweight champion
    • Most champions fought (30)
    Pacquiao did this while giving up a significant size/weight to almost every opponent for the entire decade. This is a sport where people literally freak out over a pound on the scales.
     
  9. Pakkuman

    Pakkuman I'm not hot. I'm just BIG. banned Full Member

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    Floyd fought half a decade. Plus see my extra long post.
     
  10. JordanK2406

    JordanK2406 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well honestly the only person who’s got an argument would be canelo due to having a better second half of the decade to manny. But if you can make a case for someone else then please make one
     
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  11. Boxing First

    Boxing First youtube.com/channel/UCM4RAP57DFWBjQQn2E-MDVw Full Member

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    Ive see your long post and you make some great arguments. All Im stating is that if Pacquiao had spent the last decade under GB and acheived the exact same Arum wouldnt be saying any of this.
     
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  12. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    While overall, I think your post does give a decent perspective, I have to nitpick one thing.

    Clottey was a very solid fighter, who was quite obviously a big, strong, durable welter... and who most importantly, was hiding behind his guard all night. He hid behind his guard a ridiculous amount. In fact... this is Clottey speaking about the Pac performance

    "When I fought Pacquiao, I decided I was just going to defend myself. I wasn’t going to put my life on the line for people who did nothing, but take from me."


    Its just silly to criticize Pac for not having a higher connect percentage against a guy waiting behind a high guard all night, in a fight he practically owned every minute of, against a very solid opponent. To compare it to Spence, in what was a completely different type of matchup, also makes little sense.

    And... lets clarify. Pac had a 34% connect rate on his power punches. It was largely his jabs, as he was jabbing a lot against a high guard to set up other punches, that brought his connect percentage down so drastically. His connect percentage in power punches isnt significantly low... especially when you compare it to most other Clottey opponents.

    When you win almost every round against a guy who would give most welters some tough moments and who many had beating Cotto at the time, and you make them shell up the whole fight, and youre a combination puncher that pads the "blocked punches' stats by trying to punch through their guard, and who also made those statistics even more irrelevant by skewing those numbers with peppering jabs against a high guard, to then make his accuracy a noteworthy takeaway from the entire fight seems pretty unreasonable.

    But overall I think its a decent assessment and actually did change my opinion a bit.

    ....

    So who are some of the fighters you have rated over him?
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
  13. Pakkuman

    Pakkuman I'm not hot. I'm just BIG. banned Full Member

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    Pacquiao won't win or be included as a finalist because of woke culture — BWAA won't vote for him because of his pro death penalty and homophobia.
     
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  14. Pakkuman

    Pakkuman I'm not hot. I'm just BIG. banned Full Member

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    I disagree, though. I think Arum would push for Lomachenko (historic weight climb and P4P #1) or Crawford (undisputed in 2 divisions and P4P #1).
     
  15. Pakkuman

    Pakkuman I'm not hot. I'm just BIG. banned Full Member

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    Check out my post, bro!

    :lol: