I think if you put Joe Louis in the place of Holmes, Louis would make it to 49-0

It refers to sauerkraut, a vegetable dish, eaten hot or cold., ai nt no meat in it but usually served with meat or sausage.

 

Well it don’t sound that bad an insult to me but then I guess you gotta to be a German to answer whether it really offensive to be called that or not?

 

And who did Snipes ever take out with one shot?

 

Listen. If you can't be respectful, or at least stop some way short of hysteria, don't come on here. Out of my safe zone was boxing the Combined Services Champion or sparring Wally Swift. Stop embarrassing yourself fella.

 

First, I am not your "Fella"

Second, you do not dictate terms around here

Third, I could not care less if you like or dislike me.....just ignore me and your feelings are not hurt.

Simple.

 

German girls can be attractive like in any other country...........but the best looking girls world wide live in Southern California.

Schmelling is well liked in Germany by the Oldtimers........the younger generations probably do not know who he was.

I think he was a better Business man than a fighter but a kind man nevertheless with balls.

He really wanted to click the 100 year mark, he fell short by a hair.

 

Want to be ignored ? Don't come on a public forum. Want to have a reasonable discussion ? No worries, just be respectful and don't take other points of view personally to the point that you start insulting people. These are not my rules but the rules of civilised debate.
Night.

 

The Ali

Not an attack, I love both men. Just observation without blinders on, or without excuses being made for Louis. You mentioned Bradoock, and Galento, but you failed to give your reasons ( excuses? ) for Conn having Louis out on his feet? Back to Braddock, he may have been a good puncher,,,,,, at Middleweight. But theirs nothing on his record that suggest as he went up to heavier weights, his power went with him, in fact the opposite seem more true. Look , I've wrote this a hundred times, Louis was the best offensive Heavy in history, No Heavyweight yet ( And more than likely never will, basing that on the way these Heavyweights fight today,most fight like amateurs) had the variety of punches or ability in close or from distance to just devastate an opponent the way Louis could. He could literally knock an opponent out cold in 10", 12" inches.
Tyson is the only heavy that came close to Louis's efficiency, but his punches had to travel farther for him to get max power.
Louis's offensive ability was 2and to none.
But I call it the way I see it. He didn't have a great chin or was great defensively. And in my opinion their have been a number( though small) of fighters that would've had a great chance of stopping him.... Factor that in with him having an off night , or just getting "caught " with a shot from some hard punching heavy, he would've had serious issues.

 

Indeed. And, going a step further... ...Who, of any note, did Snipes manage to take out (with any number of shots)?

 

This sort of duality occurs frequently in boxing debate, I have found. Holmes, for example, is considered past prime and jaded against Spinks, but the same people claiming this might also appreciate (or even laud over) Spinks achievement in defeating Holmes.

So, to an extent, I'd agree that you shouldn't be able to have it both ways - at least, not emphatically for each side of the same coin. Arguing both cases to the extreme doesn't make sense. However, the sentiment of both points of view are not entirely incompatible - if properly balanced.


Louis, on paper, should have beaten Schmeling in '36, but Schmeling was the better man on the night and that's about as much as one can summarize from the event, with any surety. That said, off the top of my head, I can't think of many, if any, heavyweight boxers, who were plowing through the ring top-ten like Louis was, in only their second year as a pro. Fighting guys with Schmeling's level of experience, at that stage of one's career, has to be considered high risk, surely?

Any way one looks at it, the fact that Louis lost to Schmeling speaks quite aptly to the topic of this thread and how fragile an undefeated record can be. Especially, when one is aiming high, as Louis clearly was.

 

Great post. I'm not sure anyone is running around calling Schmeling "extraordinary" as exclaimed because he beat Louis. It's well documented Louis had a bad camp and had grown cocky and overconfident - in short his great press had gone to his head. Schmeling was a very good fighter and tho aging certainly not past it. At this stage of their careers he matched up ok against Louis and got the job done. Louis of course never came in so underprepared and overconfident again. Blacky also shored up some weaknesses that Max exploited.

 

It was a scenario where two great fighters were at a crossroads. The more seasoned one of the two triumphed. The young Lion then learned from his mistakes and prevailed in the rematch. So in short it really WASN’T a knock on either of them.

 

Exactly. There's not a single notable stoppage win on his resume.

 

Good that you agree with yourself, JT!