Marciano-I Just Don't Understand It

Respect...I just don't want to see you banned, my friend.

 

Did you watch the tape and listen to the announcers Crusty Mcvey I certainly hope you can still see the tape for yourself and judge the size difference- Anger will get you nowhere - even though you are an old fart you can still learn if you open up the crusty old eyes and brain and see for yourself

 

Why don’t we just pick Mike Jameson to beat Marciano on the soul premise that he was born post WWII ?

 

I'm an occasional lurker of these boards - while I find the back and forth entertaining - I just wanted to give my brief take. Take it for what it's worth (probably not much). I'll caveat this by saying I'm probably levels below the majority of posters here on boxing knowledge. Although I am a bit of a sports historian. But my knowledge or lack there of isn't really what I'm trying to argue.

I use this argument all the time when analyzing past vs present or past era vs a different past era arguments.

All we can judge by is how well a fighter did in his era. I think for a myriad of reasons, trying to figure out if Holmes could beat Marciano, or Tyson, or Ali or whomever - it's futile. It's not relevant in any way, shape, or form if I'm trying to figure out how great Marciano was. We have different training methods, we have different weight class breakdowns, even different rules (15 vs 12 rounds, etc) . Would Marciano if placed in a different era after the 1950s - even have been a heavyweight? Would have he tried to bulk up? Or maybe fight at lower class more natural to his size. I don't know and quite frankly none of you do either.

All I do know is that the man beat multiple Hall of Famers, some more than once. He was 49-0, with a KO % approaching 90%. I believe other than Wilder (who is still active so can't really compare until Wilder is done) has the highest KO% ever for a HW.

They say Marciano only fought guys out of there prime? Not sure Walcott was, he was older but also was a fighter who got better when he was older so I don't know. Joe Louis - still a great win. Charles, Moore - these are legends of the sport he defeated. He also basically fought everyone he could possibly fight, to my knowledge never really ducked anybody or waited until they got old. It just so happened by the time he was champion that the top challengers were a bit older. Similar to Tyson perhaps - Tyson fought all comers even if they weren't the tip top opposition. But all you can do is beat what is in front of you and take on all challenges.

For me - fantasy what if matchups are fun to discuss, but don't mean anything at all when determining all time greatness. The things that matter are is how dominant one is in their era. Did they take on all possible challenges? What type of styles could they handle? Etc.

Marciano has to be considered one of the best to ever step into the ring - based on his in ring accomplishments, and not hypothetical what if scenarios.

 

Forgot to mention; neither can tell the truth.

 

BINGO !!!!

 

Do you mean they would be posting stuff like this?

The crowd of 3,696 booed the decision and some wondered if Lowry had thrown the fight. "There were some questions as to whether Lowry, who had come close to knocking out Marciano in the second, third and fourth rounds, deliberately bogged down in his attack after the fourth stanza," Thomas wrote. "Lowry stopped using his uppercut after the fourth. He went into a shell and only occasionally landed power shots. He seemed to be carrying Marciano."

In his book Rocky Marciano: The Rock of His Times, Russell Sullivan wrote the following:

"It was Lowry, not Marciano, who was on the verge of scoring an early knockout, stinging Marciano with two terrific rights in the first round and then rocking him with two mighty uppercuts in the second. By the fourth, a staggered Marciano seemed just one punch away from being knocked out. But then, inexplicably, Lowry stopped fighting and retreated into a shell despite warnings from the referee to open up and a cascade of boos from the crowd. To many, it appeared that Lowry was deliberately carrying Marciano. Was foul play afoot? Was Lowry getting paid to lose? Or was he merely tiring? Whatever the reason, a revived Marciano managed to rally in the late rounds even though many of his punches missed their mark or lacked force. On the basis of his aggressiveness and constant punching, Marciano won a unanimous decision from the judges. Most observers felt, however, that Lowry should have won."

NB Marciano was neither 20 years old, nor a two day late sub for this fight. Neither was Lowry a top ten ranked heavyweight at the time, in fact he was never ranked anywhere ever.Oh and he weighed 177.75lbs
Lowry, who earned $2,500 for the fight, denied he threw the fight. "I beat Rocky that night and that’s it," he said. "He changed his strategy in the fifth round and made a fight of it, but I won two of the last six rounds after winning the first four. It was a hometown decision."

 

Common.... I don’t need to read through all that text to know that if Rocky got laid out by Satterfield ( or anyone remotely like him ) that you would make the incident as your flagship argument against him in every debate. You’ve made more excuses for Williams losing to Satterfield and paid practically zero credit to Rex Layne for BEATING him.. not an attack on you. Just an observation

 

Marciano's critics say that he beat up past prime fighters, so this should be right up his alley!

 

You seem to be getting your facts mixed up. Unless there's some information I haven't come across, it was the first fight where tim had time to prepare for and won the decision and the 2nd one was a last minute replacement for tony Tubbs, which he lost brutally.

 

No need, there are others born pre WW11 who could turn the trick.
Dempsey,Louis,Johnson, maybe Jeffries ?

 

He beat who was around,that's all anyone can ask of a champ.

 

NOPE! I am one of the few here who doesnt actually put much stock in the 49-0-.
If Marciano had lost to a good fighter on the way up ,it wouldn't really alter my ranking of him.
He may have won two decs he shouldn't have gotten anyway.
Now lets cut to the chase,you've been skirting around , making oblique negative references , to my and other posters comments here . Its ," nail your colours ," time.
You vehemently disagree with my stance on Marciano fine say so! Come out from behind the curtain, attack by all means ,but do it from the front!

For the record Rex Layne was a good fighter with, average skills, lacked defence, average chin, and slightly above average power, [for a cruiserweight]imo .
I don't think Layne was mentioned anyway ? And Wiiliams and Satterfield were only brought to the thread
by the Gruesome Twosome
Now apart from ONE SINGLE WIN , show me who on his record contradicts this opinion of Layne I have .

Satterfield is his best stoppage win yes or no?
While you are at it, how much credit should I give Layne for stopping Satterfield in 8 rds when the following had done it earlier and quicker?
Hall 4rds
Henry1 rd
Johnson2rds
Moore 3 rds
Baroudi2 rds
Foxworth 1 rd
Parshav 1 rd
Lamotta 7rds

 

There probably would not be any complaints from certain quarters..

 

Tim Witherspoon was supposed to defend against Tubbs. Then the fight was off. Then it was back on again and Smith was the replacement. That’s how I remember it anyway. Smith took the call. What I am suggesting is Perhaps, with entirely different results, this is reminiscent of Williams taking the call to fight Satterfeild?