Marciano-I Just Don't Understand It

I don't know where you're getting those numbers from. Most of those men - including Bob Baker - were not ranked heavyweights when they fought Moore.

 

Those listings are the registered HW rankings of Archie Moore opponents.

 

The short answer is Nino was crap.

The longer answer is whilst Nino had maintained a high ranking after edging Ezzard Charles in a ten rounder he refused the rematch and missed out on an official title eliminator.

Charles landed a title fight with Marciano because he beat Satterfeild in an eliminator Nino would not take part in.

Then another Marciano fight with Charles eclipsed interest in Nino challenging Marciano on the back of a win over Jackson.

Then after this, Nino lost to Moore in an eliminator.

So this explains it.

 

It doesn't explain why Valdes was the annual number 1 in 53 & 54 but didn't get a title shot .After Valdes beat Charles, why would he need to fight him again? He was the number 1 contender for 53 &54 not Charles.Why would he need to take part in additional eliminators?

 

It is what it is. I think Ninos handlers knew he’d probably lose a rematch so he refused. Bad move . He should have taken the match and earned himself a shot that was on him. Nino lost a lot and should have never been a 1 imo and was never a real 1 obviously. You can’t really say he was dodging him which seems to be what you’re hinting at. He would have no reason to as he was never a real threat.

 

Marciano - Do we just understand it after 50 pages?

 

Moore fought Baker in March 54 Baker was not ranked then.
Maxim was not ranked at heavyweight for any of his 3 fights with Moore.
Satterfield was not ranked when he fought Moore in Jun of 49.
Muscato was not ranked when he fought Moore inJun 49 he hadn't been ranked since Dec 47.
Moore fought Payne in April 47 Payne was not ranked.
Henry was ranked when he fought Moore in Jun51 but at no 4, not 2.
Bivins was ranked for one of the 3 times Moore beat him, he was no 6 in 48
So of the nine men you named as being top ten rated only Bivins was Valdes was and Henry was.
That's three ,Three out of nine!
How do you account for that?

 

Nope ,he had already earned his shot by beating Charles and winning the number one contenders place in the ranking! Since when does a no one contender have to beat the guy he beat to get that spot again?
The plain fact is Valdes was the anual number one contender in1953 &1955 Not Cokkell who got a ttile shot in55 not Charles who got two shots in1954.
Valdes! The annual number one contender for two years is never a real threat yet he beat two guys who got shots in his place,Charles and Cokkell? I dont know how you convinced yourself of the logic of that but I must tell you, you failed miserably with me!

 

Does magically being ranked make it more or less of a win? Confused here.

 

Maybe it was a close fight? Maybe Nino had no following and they wanted Charles because it paid more and they were hoping Charles won a rematch? Who knows? The last 25 years no one fights the number one at all!!!!!!! The choice was Ninos and he even had a second shot against Moore which he at least was wise enough to take that one and blew it. If he was legit or worthy of a shot he would have won and proceeded to get embarrassed by Marciano

 

Choclab said they were ranked and repeated that statement when he was challenged on it bySolomon Deedes, I just showed 6 of those nine were not Choclab brought up the ranking criteria nobody else, and he is wrong on two thirds of it!
If you don't think facts are important, or that to achieve a top ranking you should fight ranked contenders then I suppose you could argue that it doesn't matter who you fight as long as you win which would do away with the necessity for rankings altogether!
What in the last 25 years has been done or not done is not germane to the question of whether the men Choclab named were ranked or not when Moore fought them is it?
psThe Valdes v Charles fight was not close.
Referee: Cy Gottfried 2-7

• Judge: Gus Jacobson 3-5

• Judge: Morris Feingold 3-5

"Ezzard Charles' dream of becoming the first man in history to regain the world's heavyweight championship lay all but shattered today under the wreckage of his surprise loss to obscure Nino Valdes of Cuba. Valdes stunned a crowd of 3,500 last night as he took Charles' best punches and came on to win the unanimous 10 round vote of two judges and the referee. Charles entered the ring at 191 pounds, a little over his usual fighting weight, and he allowed that the extra poundage made him a little sluggish." -United Press
The Valdes v Moore second fight was!

Referee: James J Braddock 8-5

• Moore vs. Valdes advertisement

"In the rough battle, referee Jim Braddock took one round away from each battler because of low blows. There were no knockdowns but each was knocked back onto his heels several times during the exciting slugging match. Archie Moore was bleeding from the nose and mouth at the finish, and his left eye also was swollen. But he could see very well. Nino Valdes forced the fighting in nearly every round and tried to impale his bobbing-weaving opponent with long left jabs and whistling rights. In the 13th session, Nino's left eye was closed tightly shut and he fought on half-blinded and fatigued. Moore's superiority in the 14th and 15th rounds clinched the fight and gave Moore his 20th straight victory." - United Press I dont understand how a guy who ,according to Cholab was CRAP and STANK, gave Moore such a tough fight? Any ideas?

 

Being Ranked is important but if you’re ranked a year after or before what’s the big deal? It’s a good win in hindsight. That’s all I’m saying. Nino wasn’t crap at all. He just wasn’t a one imo. He was so inconsistent (a lot of 50s guys were it seems) I put him with the likes of Satterfield. Good fighter could surprise w a win but could disappoint with a loss easily. Marciano would have won that match and easily imo. I don’t think Marciano knew fear as a fighter (so he says). If he did it wouldn’t have been against Nino

 

Jaco gets whackod

 

Let's see...Dave Jaco....a journeyman fighter who spent his career fighting other guys to build up THEIR records....24 wins and 25 losses...(18 by knockout) and 1 draw....vs. maybe the best conditioned fighter of all time...with great stamina...power in both hands..a great chin...a "kill or be killed attitude"...who was champ from 1952 to 1956...and all time great warrior...who retired at 49-0 with 43 KO's. Geez....I dunno...let me think about this.....LOL!!!

 

Jaco by mid rounds stoppage.Is that what you wanted to read?