How would a scheduled 12-rounder between Lennox Lewis and Joe Frazier look?

It's easy to cherry pick a few small moments of a fight to make a point. Watching the whole fight in it's entirety is a fairly dull affair. Tua did not bring nearly as much heat in this fight as a prime Frazier.

I wasnt trying to set out and prove lewis was glass jawed. In fact i agree his chin is underrated and anyone who gives him less than a 7/10 is clearly a hater. My point was that of the 3 best left hook specialists Lewis faced, 2 of them didnt offer much competition and were destroyed easily before they could land much and tua had his moments but also didn't apply as much pressure as you'd expect for a powerful come forward type in the biggest bout of his career. IF Frazier were to win it wouldn't be by one hit ko anyway, the power and danger of his hooks came from how rapidly he could whip them out, reload, and fire again while also alternating between body and head.

Again, the point wasn't to imply that Frazier would simply batter and stop Lewis with the first big hook he lands, but rather that the clash of styles would make Lewis uncomfortable. The Mercer and 2nd holyfield fights in particular were very close and both happened to be tough come forward guys who applied non stop pressure.

 

height to height and overall stature, it's not hard to see, nor is it a discussion about weight.

it's an emphasis on the blatant size differences that in reality are two different divisions

forget the weight for a moment, which also is in & around 40 lbs as well.

but it's blatant stature that's being considered here.

 

Lewis rocks him with first Jab landed.

 

Might be similar to the Lewis-Mercer fight, a hard 12 with a lot of close rounds but Lennox get's a close decision after some shaky moments and toughing it out.

 

I think it was a terrific weapon,because of his ability to continually throw it, reload and throw it again ,but its power is overated imo.
I refuse to believe he possessed the power of Lennox Lewis, and in that I think I would be in the solid majority of boxing people.

 

Lewis would be nearly 6 inches taller,over 40lbs heavier with 11 inches of reach on Joe so yes there is a good chance that up close Joe would look like a middleweight against him.

 

I definitely put Frazier's power on a par with Lewis...however, it's mostly just that left hook. After Lewis got with Mercer he was a two-fisted bomber, while Joe's right (though absolutely no joke to get hit with) was pale in comparison to his hook.

So, though equal, Lewis was firing Frazier hook-level punches from both hands, Joe with one.

I still see FOTC Joe chopping him down. Just a matter of time, the hook was relentless and sent with at least as much vicious intent as prime Holmes' left jab.

 

Lewis knocked top guys out!

 

Lennox was a great puncher, so was Joe.

 

Rose colored nostalgia.....

Show me ONE 6'3 and up 225 to 245 pounds QUALITY not some cannon fodder opponent who Frazier ever laid out with ONE shot ? I wait.

Second, Lewis might not hit as hard as Foreman but is way more polished, faster and also bigger.......and Frazier crumbled like a stale cookie.

Third, I consider myself a Lewis critic but he will bounce Frazier worse than Foreman did, Frazier was easy to hit and aint got the chin to handle the fire power.

Frazier fought only ONE legitimate Big banger and got starched.......Futch kept him far away from ANY banger until he met the unproven Foreman. Fact.

 

Lewis KO.

 

My only point is that Tua did indeed land some good hooks - with no real affect. On one Tua actually seems to pause and admire his handiwork. I wonder if he expected Lewis to drop. I wasn't debating the fight to be less dull than you stated. Lewis put a clinic on the smaller man.

Yes. Lewis might deserve a bit of credit for Tua's display as well. I'd say his huge power was a decent part of what kept Tua honest. It's sheer size allied to that power as well of course and he can fight. He's not one of these great big plodders people like to throw forward as proof of this and that.

Their clash of styles could potentially make Lewis uncomfortable yes. Lewis' size and power allied to being able to really fight might make Frazier uncomfortable too.

Sure Tyson was well past it when they fought but he was firing hard in that first round and Lewis went hard back at him with uppercuts and power - on Stewart's instruction in order to get respect early. With Frazier also being a smaller swarmer it's odds on Stewart would push Lewis to go hard in that first round. This would be hard on the steady starting Frazier.

 

1st , styles makes fights. Just because Foreman "bounced" Frazier doesn't mean Lewis would do it, though he had the size and probably physical strength to do. Lewis N-E-V-E-R Fought with the aggression or physicality of prime Foreman.
Your right Frazier never laid out a quality fighter with one shot, but Frazier wasn't Earnie Shavers, he was a swarmer with a great left hook, his game was pressure, break the opponents down, than wear them out.
2and Foreman may have "Bounced" Frazier, and Frazier may have "Crumbled like a stale cookie".
But Frazier never got "starched " by a fighter that couldn't carry Foreman's jock strap, and that happened to Lewis......... 2 TIMES in the PRIME of his career! So when you dig that ditch, dig two of them.
3rd
Frazier wasn't easy to hit, one only has to watch the FOTC to see that, and be aware of the number of punches Ali threw at Frazier in one of the fastest paced fights in heavyweight history. And how many times Frazier made him miss, along with fighters noted for their hand speed like Ellis and Mathis.
4th Rose colored Nostalgia or modern era media creations.

 

You basically just admitted that Tua "admiring his work" is why this fight would be a rather poor blueprint for gauging Frazier's effectiveness. This does seem to indicate it would take a while for Frazier's power to dent Lennox since if nothing else, Tua had tremendous power. The difference again lies critically in both Frazier's rapid firing and work rate and his relentlessness being the opposite of this version of Tua. Frazier was never counting on a 1 hit ko like tua.

I completely agree with this. Lewis ironically made his own fights dull at times due to how effective he was at shutting down his opponent's game plan and neutralizing their strengths. Somewhat similar to what Mayweather gets criticized for.

I agree that Frazier taking even a single round to warm up could be disastrous if Steward has Lennox come out aggressive like the Tyson fight. I wouldn't bet on this though. That very same fight you're referencing, the Tyson one, Stewart literally yelled and cursed Lennox out to get him to stop being so cautious and professional and get Tyson out of there since he was still dangerous.

This is why psychology and personalities cannot be overlooked in fantasy fights. Lennox did have a few fights where he was impressive starting strong and aggressive like against Golota and Briggs but this was not the norm.

However, if even a young Foreman who was a gold medalist and ex street mugger/bully was intimidated by Frazier (as he has admitted in interviews), I wonder what the introverted and reserved Lewis' reaction would be after studying tapes and meeting him for the first time? What happens if even after dropping him, Frazier gets up and bangs his fists together pressing forward as if he simply tripped on a banana peel? Does lennox become even more cautious? Does he back off? Panic? Or see through it and try to end things as soon as possible? None of these are difficult to imagine.

 

Well, I certainly think your reasoning is valid! Lewis did get whapped out by a couple of not-ATG fighters (far from it).

I do give Lewis credit though, he did have potent guns. One of the hardest decisions I made when positioning Lewis was deciding to put him ahead of Foreman, and I'm still a bit troubled by it:

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Holmes
4. Holyfield
5. Lewis
6. Foreman
7. Marciano
8. Frazier
9. Wlad
10. Tyson
11. Dempsey
12. Johnson
13. Liston
14. Vitali
15. Bowe
16. Charles
17. Tunney
18. Walcott
19. Fitzsimmons
20. Norton

I just can't see pre-Steward Lewis beating FOTC Frazier...he had the power but as mentioned above he didn't work like Foreman. Lewis was far more cautious, and he did rely a lot on the right hand. The cautiousness would give Frazier too much of a chance to warm up, and that's a deadly mistake.

I can see Steward-era Lewis stopping Frazier, but he'd have to do it in the first 4 rounds. After that things aren't so certain.

Not sure how my seeing Lewis as having a lot of trouble and perhaps losing as wearing rose-coloured glasses. I happen to have a lot of respect for Lewis. FOTC Frazier was the ****, period. That guy would probably beat Larry Holmes and perhaps even Joe Louis, two heavyweights who are (along with Ali) top of the heap as far as I'm concerned.

That one night, Joe might have been the greatest heavyweight who ever lived. Watch the fight again...that face, that defense, that determination. Nothing like it before or since in the history of the sport. Wait, I take that back...Duran vs. Leonard I compares but perhaps even that performance pales in comparison, due to the extreme of concentration employed by Joe in the FOTC.

It's not mythology, the fight is available for viewing.