Choose the best Heavyweight in boxing history.

M.Tyson was the most skilled heavyweight of all-time and was on his way to becoming the greatest of all-time but sacked Rooney and lost his way, who knows how could have could have been, he was still learning.

 

Like I already noted he doesnt have one win like that. I dont think Joe was ever an underdog.

 

What about the losses though? You gotta consider those as well. Ali lost to Frazier at 29, Norton at 31 not to mention more than a few questionable wins late in his reign that Norton, Young, Shavers.
I do agree with you that Ali has a case as well I think Louis has the best balance in the discussion considering length of reign, quality wins, his ability.

 

He fired Rooney because his mind was already gone. He didnt want to box anymore.

 

King got Tyson to sack Rooney because he wanted to take over his career completely with nobody close to Mike to tell him what a creep King was and how he was sucking Mike dry, he groomed Mike who was emotionally very vulnerable and naive.

 

Ali has more losses but if we're comparing primes, Ali didn't lose in his prime if the cutoff point is the 60's until the exile.

A prime Louis lost to Schmeling in a pretty 1 sided affair. Granted, the rematch was a gloriously brutal and entertaining 1st round ko but Schmeling was past his physical prime in both fights and considered the underdog. Yes he was an ex champ and a crafty fighter but how many matches aside from these do people even remember seeing?

Ali's 1st loss, against Frazier, was nothing to be ashamed of honestly considering Ali had just 2 matches after nearly 4 years and frazier was an undefeated undisputed champ who was 2 years younger, a former gold medalist, and had pretty much cleaned out the division while Ali was in exile. Frazier would retire an ATG and ranks far higher than Schmeling.

The Norton loss isn't anything to scoff at either. Putting the broken jaw aside, It's not like Norton accomplished nothing outside of the trilogy, he had phenomenal fan favorite bouts with Holmes and young long after. You can dock points against Ali for getting a gift in the 3rd bout but he was far past his physical prime and he was strongly urged by the nation of Islam, his family, and his Doctor to retire but he wouldn't listen. His legs were also in horrible shape after the beating they took in the Antonio Inoki pseudo mma fight. In truth Norton was "robbed" against a fighter who shouldn't have been in the ring in the first place.

If Louis gets a pass getting schooled by Charles and obliterated by Rocky when he was past his prime (despite all the rocky fans beating it over our heads about how many ranked opponents Louis beat), then surely we can equate it to Ali's losses to Norton and especially Berbick and Holmes.

The Leon Spinks fights is less easy to overlook. No matter how you slice it, Ali should have demolished this guy or at least won a wide ud. He was short, crude, not particularly durable, and had very little pro experience. The only valid defense is he was the type of fighter Ali disliked due to the style clash (relentless swarmer) and Ali's age. But that isn't enough honestly. I think it really boiled down to Ali's laziness and going through the motions to get paid. His heart wasn't in it any more and the loss was a wake up call for one last hurrah.

That's one thing I'll give Louis: if a guy wasn't on his level, he embarrassed him. Ali tended to play with his food and slacked off in training.

The jimmy young fight you can certainly criticize Ali ballooning up in weight, but this was honestly very hard to score. Jimmy was ahead of his time and his style not fully understood or appreciated. He would have had problems regardless. He also didn't let his hands go enough to convince me there was a "robbery" and also used illegal tactics like sticking his head out the ropes. Clever but questionable.

Lastly, Louis had 2 ko losses while Ali had 0. That has to be factored in.

 

Ali was stopped by Holmes. Larry was merciful that night. Your right on that Ali didnt lose in his prime or preprime. At the same time it was a much shorter window than Louis navigated. Ali more or less gets a partial pass for any loss after the exile. When you compare their comp prine for prime Ali 60s Louis 30s Joe has an edge.

 

Well if you want to get technical dundee refused to let Ali continue. He wasn't even knocked down let alone out. It was the right decision and Holmes obviously wasn't going all out but he definitely has that over Louis.

Well 60's Ali competition vs Louis 30's competition Id wager is actually debatable. Again, Louis has sheer quantity, no one is disputing that. But if we take their top 5 wins, is it really an astronomical difference?

-Liston
-Terrel
-Patterson
-Chuvalo
-Foley

Vs

-Schmeling
-Baer
-Braddock
-Sharkey
-Carnera

Talent and skill wise, you could possibly match baer with liston (id have a Liston a notch above honestly), Patterson with Schmeling, Terrel with Carnera, Braddock with Chuvalo, and sharkey with folley. In fact i can make a case for each of Ali's opponents being superior!

 

This.

 

The main theme with Ali and Louis is whether you prefer you prefer Louis' incredible longevity and quantity or Ali's superior top end opponents in Liston, Frazier and Foreman. Ali also beat many other top 100 Heavies. Fantastic arguments can be made for either as we can see. They are the clear #1 and #2. After them it's absolute daylight "greatness" wise.

 

I actually think tyson fury after he’s beaten wilder and Joshua will be Goat.

but from this list it’s holmes or ali. Jabs and footwork. They outbox anyone on that list. How lewis and tyson have any votes is beyond me.

Larry Holmes was a bad man!

 

Are you from Manchester?

 

Ali had parkinson`s during the Holmes fight.

 

M.Tyson was more skilled than Wilder and AJ.

 

It was diagnosed during the fight was it?