Little Overblown Narratives?

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I am going to agree with you on pretty much the whole of tour reply. I was going to also add a bit of my own world renowned wisdom on the situation but, you know, my computer absolutely hates me. I mean, it lives to let me type out hugely wordy, often over wordy if honest, and it will allow me to do so for a good 30 minute stretch, and as I turn the corner to come down the stretch, when it is time to close the show, the finish line is within my grasp....this absolute s h i t machine decides it is time to pretend I pushed the back button, or that I have selected all of the text which i have just spent the already mentioned amount of time creating, and after pretending as though i have purposely selected all of my just typed heart and soul, it pretends as though I have, just on a whim, decided to delete it all, or decided I would rather just close Chrome altogether, or maybe I just wanted to go back to last nights fights etc, and gee whiz, whaddaya know? Adios to all the effort. It is hard out here for a pimp in 1st world America. Very hard. So, I just concede that i agree with everything you said! it was pretty much the truth anyway

 

I am not in disagreement really with anyone of those sharing this opinion, which I believe is you and one other gentleman. I am, for the most part, just trying to share a bit of background info as stated by the boxer himself. Nothing more. Nothing less. Also, as i think I wrote, or maybe it was part of the post my laptop decided for me I actually didn't wanna share with you all, I mentioned how, just as in real life for all of us, the boxer in question, Barrera, wasn't always sounding to sure on the topic himself, lol

 

With Barrera there was also the Chavez factor. Much like Argentina in the 90s and 00s produced a horde of soccer players trying to play like Diego Maradona, likewise there was a strong inclination for Mexican fighters in the same era to fight like Chavez. Barrera seemed to get that bug when he was demolishing Toledo and Benavides, and walking through huge shots from McKinney.

It's less a phenomenon now after Barrera, Morales and Marquez established their own legacies.

 

I think the narrative that Ricardo Lopez fought nobody of worth at 105 to be a bit overblown.

* Rosendo Alvarez was very, very good at his absolute best and would have been a handful for anyone who has fought at the weight.
* Saman Sor Jatourang wasn't that far removed from the guy who out-dueled Humberto Gonzalez and then crafted an extended reign at 108.
* Javier Varguez gave Micheal Carbajal a very tough fight.
* Kyung Yung Lee, Manny Melchor, Alex Sanchez, Hideyuki Ohashi, and Kermin Guardia were all world titlists at the weight. So were Patelo and Sor Vorapin.
* Will Grigsby was a fine two time titlist at 108lbs.

Lopez unified, defeated the one opponent who had really given him trouble, and defended against, imo, a slightly underrated crew of opponents. He also tended out perform Carbajal and Gonzalez when taking into consideration common opponents.

If it could be said that Lopez might have been overrated in his prime, I think the pendulum has swung the other way and his body of work is a little underrated at present.

 

Or to fight in the way that people THOUGHT was how Chavez fought all the time. I don't like using the word casual much but I think it could be used here in saying that it takes a decent eye for the sport to see that Chavez wasn't fighting in the manner people would have been made to believe by others who aren't sure of what it is they are seeing. The conception of prime Chavez just eating any shot* in the world to come and impale your liver on his left hand isn't correct exactly, but if you can't see the rolling punches, last split second slips of punches coming at the fighter, etc etc, I think it is easy to see how the idea got going that Chavez fought like a Jason Voorhees/Walking Dead extra.

*Edit: That being said, if there's at least one thing all who ever have watched Chavez fight should be able to agree on is the fact that he did have a chin made of all the metals often used to describe aid chin. He could take a shot with the best, and could do so for the majority of his career. Super stud, that one. Oh yeah, almost forgot: Anyone know if there is any truth whatsoever in a statement I heard a commentator make during some random Chavez fight that a Dr or a scan or some such showed Chavez to have an abnormally thick skull? Whether true or not, is this something anyone else reading this may have heard at some point in time?

 

Case in point. This silly narrative never dies even tho I posted contemporary reports of Marciano's daily regimen before fights with both Walcott and Charles. It was a little running, a bit of conditioning and bag work, a lot of laying around and some sparring. A guy with a full-time job could have pulled it off.

 

That Chris Byrd somehow separated himself from titlists or champions like Ruiz, Brewster, or Rahman during his career.

 

from Harold Kaese, “In a Game That’s Noted for Its Punks, Phoneys, Rocky Stands for Class, Boston Globe (Sept. 20, 1952), p.7


“[…] Marciano is satisfied if he has a few close friends and a pantry near him.

He is eating all the way, although Al Colombo, a pal, thinks Rocky’s knife-and-fork exercises have been exaggerated.

“He’s over-rated,” said Colombo, adding alertly, I mean as an eater, not a fighter.”

Colombo’s revelation that Marciano does not eat eight lamb chops for breakfast but only two or three was sworn to by Alfred Renault, the camp’s chef. […]

Marciano, who only skipped rope today, said he was not nervous, “only a little tense like I always am before a fight.” This he admitted, was his big opportunity and concluded, “I don’t intend to lose it.”

Each day for a month, Marciano has got up at 7 a.m. He then has a cup of tea (sugar and lemon) and usually runs between three and five miles.

At 8:30, it is a breakfast of fruit, cereal, two soft-boiled eggs, lamb chops, toast, and more tea.

He walks and naps until noon, when he has some tea.

Then he naps until his big workout at 3 p.m. After 4:30 he naps until dinner time at 5:30; after which he walks, plays ping pong, reads, or listens to the radio. At 8:30 he may have an apple or pear, and goes to bed.

According to Reinault, the meat is usually steak or roast beef—rare. Lamb, veal, and a little chicken for variety. Baked potatoes, green vegetables, and plenty of salads with oil and vinegar dressing. Oh yes—tea.

No Italian foods. No pork. No pastry. No ice cream.

Reinault, who came to this country from Germany in 1923, also cooked here for Joey Maxim before the Robinson fight. The difference he said, was “Maxim had to lose weight, so he ate less and ran more than this fellow.”

Marciano has not been training for a race. He wants to win only one letter against Walcott—in boxing, not track.”

I work some shifts during the naps and eating. No problem.

 

apologies for almost always going way overboard with post length. I like to write, and I like boxing, ergo I like writing about boxing. Of course that in no way means it is any good

I am surprised it took me this long to realize I was JUST involved in a thread elsewhere, sherdogs boxing forum* (I imagine we all know but if not, this is somewhat the boxrec of MMA) and the thread topic was fights/fighters where YOU suspect loaded gloves were used YOU, not boxing media, fighters etc, YOU/ME/US Joe blow boxing fan. I had just watched the majority of Foreman Alex Stewart and in the comments for the fight I saw many saying Stewart likely was loaded which was something I had never came across as far as I remember at least. So I googled and that was how I ended up on the forum topic, which was a yr old or so and only had received a few replies. I wrote a comment and shortly after that it went to about five pages worth of replies. The OP is suspicious Alex Stewart purely on account of that Foreman fight (in the YT comments section that started me off that day I saw a few people writing that Foreman believes Stewart was loaded too. True?) He has Pacquiao and uses what Pac did to Margarito's eye, which is impossible to inflict upon someone with legal wraps and/or boxing gloves (didja y'all know that it is an impossibility to do that with gloves on?) At least the guy realizes that if true, it would contain unmeasurable irony. He then brings up Jack Dempsey for the Willard fight, which is the crux of my example regarding an overblown/incorrect narrative which I feel is a perfect fit for our thread here and while it was a small factor in what made me go through the rigmarole of creating an account over there to try and teach some ignorance outta some a those suckers, but the final two sealed it for me having to reply. Chavez Sr on account of the 1st Meldrick Taylor fight, and likely others in his long career. Last was Erik Morales, who, 5-6 days of a wk is my answer if ever asked who my fav all time fighter is, and he feels that the aged Erik shouldn't have been able to put the re arrangement in the brutal manner in which he did, to the face of the younger Pablo Cesar Cano. As for Chavez Sr, all those fights he had, especially those in the States, but also I imagine anywhere he fought, Taylor wasn't the first to get hammered, but, as the tradition of having a second of the opponents team watching the wrapping, and is there not as well always a commission rep there as weal so as to watch and then sign off on the handwraps?Teams seeing the damage Chavez could inflict by way of either watching his fights or talking with opponents etc, knowing what was possible and what may be coming to their fighter, one should think that they would want to be as observant as near humanely possible during the handwrapping, and if not it'd be some serious level dereliction of duty on their behalf and their fighters possible well being as well, plus I'd also imagine that if you are of his opponents corner, you would want your fighter to be worrying about as little as they possibly can, and that is very much something that they shouldn't be worried about. Also, 100 some fights is a ton of fights, and if cheating like that, or in any manner on multiple occasions, 100 some times provides a lot of opportunities to eventually be caught cheating if doing so. Back to Taylor real quick though. you almost just have to believe that his cornermen for the rematch would be on orange level terror threat status while watching Chavez being wrapped. I mean, if ever there was a team that you know should be on top of that issue, it would be in the rematch with Taylor's corner. I think this is significant when seeing that when Taylor was stopped in the 8th rd, he was beginning to take on a semi similar appearance to the one four yrs previous and had the fight gone another 15 ish mins he may have gotten back to a similar appearance.
Ok, all to much now! Long ass story short, Dempsey almost certainly was not loaded. read this thread i link to if you havent wasted all your reading free time on this nonsense I left here.

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/fights-fighters-where-you-suspect-loaded-gloves.3750469/

 

The Magic bottle nonsense From Pryor vs Arguello. Makes it seem Pryor wasn't winning the fight from the previous 13rds, or Pryor was slowing down ( He was winning the fight, and if he slowed, it was just barely. ) And the convieniet forgetting their were two fights. Pryor stopped him earlier in the 2and fight.

 

I think you are right about the fight itself, Pryor was winning hands down. The thing for me though is that it is only 6 months after this that Lewis does the glove stuff. That is about the most serious known incident from that point through to Margarito. I just don't see how Lewis thought he could get away with something on that scale, the very first time he supposedly decides to cheat. I feel he must've had the confidence he could get away with it on account of getting away with other things. The Pryor camp supposedly wanted a 12 rd fight. They didn't get it. Just cause he was kicking ass in the fight doesn't mean they didn't think to take some "precaution" as they aren't clairvoyant, and "gimmee the bottle" twice?
Two fights don't mean anything

 

Lewis asked for the drink that he mixed between the 2nd and 3rd round, you can see Pryor drinking from that bottle. So Pryor was drinking something other than water from the beginning. That's stone-cold cheating.

 

That Nunn was dominating Toney before the KO.

He wasn't.

He won the early rounds and was doing well, but Toney was beginning to time him and come on. I believe he even said something to the effect of 'He's going. I'm going to get him' when instructed by Miller in the corner.

 

Chavez the face first slugger is more than an overblown narrative in my view. It's completely incorrect, and seems to be based on a single fight against a uniquely skilled opponent. McGirt shipped huge punishment from Taylor as well, but I've never seen him referred to as defensively wide open; Taylor's handspeed could do that to anyone if he dictated the fight.

Chavez was a highly skilled infighter, and along with his concrete chin he was very good at rolling and slipping punches. Unlike Barrera though, I think he was always more effective as a constant aggressor. Barrera's best style to me was when he was more patient and set up his flurries; his handspeed was highly underrated.