It was supposed to be a run of the mill defence, another bum of the month for Tyson. I'm sure I read an article just before it, with some guy who I just cant remember who it was, saying that Tyson needed to be prepared for a tough fight because Douglas was no bum. World of difference from a tough fight and getting your title ripped from you!
I remember watching it and wasn't that surprised it wasn't an early ko, Buster was doing quite well. But after the 5th round I said uh oh! this is starting smell like an upset. My phone rang and a pal of mine said,,Is Buster going to beat him? I said so far he is. What I noticed was Mikes achilles heal. Once you stopped him from coming forward, he was all target.
I believe it was more of a mental thing than physical. This is why he'd have no chance against the sluggers of the division, Foreman and Liston. I'd actually favor him to beat Wilder though as I don't believe he has the punch output necessary to deter Tyson as the former 2 do.
I think guys like prime Holmes, Ali, Bowe, Liston, and Louis (perhaps Walcott) would have exposed both of Mike's Achilles' Heels: his at times helplessness when he couldn't move forward, and his often being completely open as he was coming in. The right hand that drove Mike across the ring in the final round of the first Holy fight was proof of the latter. It amazes me that from that point on his other opponents didn't exploit that more. Now that I think about it, his openness at that point was almost always a very short time: he was usually landing or his head was usually there within milliseconds. Holyfield just timed it perfectly.
Watch Mike throw that jab-right at the end of the Holy I fight (right before the punch that knocked him across the ring)...he threw those shots so wide open and so often it's hilarious no one caught on before. Ali, Holmes, and Louis would have seen that.
I remember hearing an enormous "POP!' as the Tyson bubble burst, followed shortly after by an enormous thudding sound after a million Tyson fanboys bottom lips hit the ground. The following day I heard an incessant whining noise as the excuses, complaints and cop outs began by said fanboys. The sound reverberates still to this day.
Was it one of the early Sky fights ? I went to my Dad's to watch it but he went to bed as he thought the fight would be a waste of time. I just remember sitting in silent disbelief as Douglas systematically took Tyson apart. Having been fairly neutral at the start, when Tyson scored the knockdown I was imploring Douglas to get up. I just though it would have been an injustice for him to boxed so far above any level we'd seen from him just to see it taken away. I've seen many an upset going right back to the mid 70's until now but that one was massive.
Good post mate. I'd just like to add, most people after Douglas still bought into Tyson being unbeatable, I mean he did come back and win like 4 times in a row by first round KO. Then beat the **** outta Razor Rudduck. Wasn't their supposedly a Holyfield scheduled too? People were still terrified by what Tyson could do, even if he stopped doing it in 1988. His air of sheer violence is still around when his name's spoken today, fighters were visibly terrified of him. I always thought Tyson hated it when he was stood up to, ala Holyfield. It's overblown how he wilted when things didn't go his way, but when somebody wasn't scared of him, and had the ability to stand up to him physically he did NOT like it. Guys like Liston, Bowe, Foreman and Frazier beat him coz of this imo. What'd you think of a prime Tyson vs FOTC Frazier? Oh and errrr, there's no way Walcott beats Tyson lol.
You'd call Liston a slugger? I agree he wins, but I'd definitely call him a boxer-puncher, he did box a lot more than he brawled, after all.
\ Prime Holmes could be quite unintimidated himself, check out the pre-fight looks he gives his challengers. No fear there. Completely different from the nearly-two-years-laid-off new grandpa that faced prime Tyson. Buster Douglas in Tokyo was NOTHING compared to Shavers I Holmes...or Ali Holmes for that matter. I think you would have guessed the answer from me re FOTC Frazier against ANYone, @George Crowcroft. I honestly believe Frazier would have beaten ANY heavyweight champion that evening...yeah, even George (who beat a diminished Joe that never recouped from FOTC). Tyson would have probably floored Joe...and then been really bummed out when he got right back up and clapped his gloves together. Frazier by 8th round TKO...and Mike would have been helpless at the end. And yeah, Jersey Joe was a reeeealll iffy idea on my part. But JJW was a tricky fighter...wouldn't surprise me if he scored at least a flash knockdown. Mike wouldn't have liked how difficult Walcott could be, but I see Mike winning a UD, without any major problems. Not sure on a knockout of prime Jersey Joe. After all this, I must reiterate that I have Mike number 10 on my list of ATGs. I feel the only thing he was missing during his original reign was a Champion's heart. To be fair, he had no one who could test him on that at the time. But Mike more than proved himself in the 90s, Ruddock at times knocked the **** out of him (seriously, watch that fight again, Mike took some unbelievable punches) and Lewis hurt him more than anyone...he kept coming. Mike was a great, great fighter. But Ali, Holmes, Louis, Frazier, Foreman, Holy, Bowe, Liston...none of those men would have been afraid of him. Mike didn't like that...watch the second Holy fight (the stare down) to see Mike act completely uncharacteristically (avoiding Holy's eyes and looking like a little *****). Holy was beating him handily before the ear thing, too, it was plain for all to see. I think Mike could have beaten Joe any time after FOTC, I also think he would have beaten the post-Ali Foreman (but not the Holyfield to Moorer Foreman). I think he would have beaten the Golota Bowe, Ali Liston, Patterson, Willard, Charles, Walcott (though again I think that's more iffy), pre-Steward Lewis...perhaps even Marciano. Johnson and Dempsey are harder to call, they were both pretty fearless dudes (though Dempsey DID draw that colour line, I'm not sure it was out of fear).There are certain, more fearless, men he couldn't have beat. But there are literally HUNDREDS of heavyweights Iron Mike could have beaten in his day (including past champions), and even a little beyond that....
To be honest it was a huge shock. Tyson did look as invulnerable as it gets. I mean this was a guy who's biggest hiccups pre-Buster was having a competitive but clear win over Tillis and getting rocked for a second against Bruno before demolishing him. Basically every great champ before him had tougher encounters pre-title win against varying levels of competition (with Foreman being a possible exception). And that still holds true to this day I think. He was a great talent but his flaws weren't the sort that he ever really overcome. He still rates as one of the most dangerous early rounds fighters in any division ever in my opinion.
Mike was definitely up there with Foreman and Liston as the most terrifying heavyweight champion ever imo.
Boxing's biggest story since maybe the Fight of the Century (Ali/FraizerI), and it gets knocked off the front pages by one of the few things that were even bigger: Nelson Mandela's release!
Holmes was a bad ass. One day he'll be fully appreciated and he can stop being so bitter and show everyone how nice of a bloke he was too. Yeah, actually I do remember reading that. I wouldn't, but he is the only HW I'd pick over a prime Ali. I'd pick him to beat Louis and Holmes too. I'd pick Tyson over 12 rounds by decision, based on dropped Joe early; maybe once, maybe twice. Over 15? Joe savages him and stops him, circa 13/14. Once round 6 hits, the momentum would almost immediately shift imo, Tyson would've blown his load and Frazier's would just be getting started. Wellllllll worse guys than a prime Mike stopped a prime Walcott. He was far from bulletproof, and I find him very overrated. Tyson would get him out early with a counter imo. If honestly be surprised if went the same distance as the Holmes fight. Tyson was a tough guy, make no mistake. I've always thought he has an underrated chin. His heart wasn't poor, he did try and get up, he didn't just quit when the going got tough, he hung in there and took punishment against Lewis, Holy and Douglas. But yeah, you're definitely right about him not having heart like Holmes, Ali, Joe, Holyfield, Charles, Patterson ect ect. I think I've got him at 11 on my HW list(if not 11 it's 12). Yeah I agree, a number of guys wouldn't have been scared of him, but I think that they'd need the ability, or durability, to beat Tyson too. I think he'd beat a prime Louis, Wlad, Lewis, Marciano, Dempsey, Johnson, Charles, Patterson, Ingo ect ect(the list is very very long).I'm hardly a Dempsey fan, but I can say with near 100% assurance he wasn't scared of anybody. Lol was there a particular reason you mentioned Williard? He wasn't even as good as Berbick imo.
