60's Ali vs 70's Ali

Well I think I'd favour FOTC Frazier to beat any Ali and I'm not exactly a huge fan of Frazier. I'm sure your of the assumption that any version of Young Foreman beats Frazier so why should it be different in this case? I know the style match up isn't quite as bad for Ali comparing it to Foreman-Frazier, however it heavily favours Frazier in this match up.

On the actual topic though, 70s Ali is just that little bit slower and pays the price for it. Doesn't have anywhere near enough power to trouble 60s Ali either so I'll take 60s Ali by UD 146-139

 

comedy gold

 

No doubt :good

 

Frazier had most trouble (even in FOTC) when Ali gave him movement & stuck the jab in his face, in all 3 fights thats were Muhammad Ali picked up the majority of his rounds... Frazier had his best moments when Ali was having rest periods & trapped in the corner or on the ropes, the 64-67 version would have far, far fewer of those trapped moments & IMO would pick Joe apart from the outside for the majority of a 12 or 15 round fight.

Joe cannot touch Ali when Ali is in full flow boxing mode, on the move & thats the 70s version I`m talking about, the 60s version had much better legs, was faster, sharper & better conditioned & those are the primary reasons that Joe did well vs Ali in the 70s because those attributes had diminished.

I don`t expect to change your opinion but all I can do is give you my opinion.

 

:deal

 

I realise that FOTC Ali wasn't as good as 60s Ali however your acting as if there to completely different fighters. Ali in the 60s was sharper and faster, but their attributes are not that far apart. Ali moved well against frazier for the majority of the fight and Frazier still took rounds
when he was doing so (I think I had it 10-5 Frazier) Also consider the knockdown in the 15th cementing Frazier's dominance that night. With the cockiness Ali had in the 60s I personally think Frazier has a good chance to knock him out (cooper may well have done without the smelling salts). Also theirs the argument that Frazier wasn't actually at his best in FOTC. He was never quite as good as he was. (IMO) after he broke his ankle in 1970 and I'm pretty sure he damaged his knee at the same time.

Id also rate 70s Ali ability to take a punch over 60s Ali. May have been the dynamics of his weight. Like you said he wasn't as light on his feet so he may have had a bit more weight on his legs. Not saying 60s Ali against Foreman would get caught with anywhere near the same number as shots as 70s Ali, but if he were to I can't see him lasting over 6 rounds with the rope a dope tactic.

I also like 79-81 Holmes over 64-67 Ali, penny for your thoughts on this match up?

 

Frazier once said that Ali's best performance was in the FOTC. Nothing self indulgent about that,is there ?

 

The young Ali only ever showed athleticism whereas the old ali showed technical ability, also when a young athletic fighter fights a young technical boxer, the athletic one usually wins because he is too fast handspeed and foot speed for the technical boxer to show any of his boxing, but when an old athletic fighter fights an old technical boxer, the technical boxer usually wins because the foot speed slows down and technical boxing skills don’t diminish because it’s knowledge, not reactions and speed which slow down, an example would be Hopkins vs Jones, in the first fight, Jones was just too fast, he won nearly every round, 15+ Years later, Hopkins won every round, but I think the young Ali outpoints the old Ali by landslide unless he got tired which I highly doubt

 

Is there a reason you're bumping old threads?

 

Is there a reason I’m more knowledgable on the sport of boxing than you??

 

This tells me exactly what I need to know about you.

 

What does it tell you? I was trying to be civil and give knowledgable information, you on the other hand, well................
I assume you seen how much knowledge I have in the sport and you and you maybe hold some bitterness when you see someone more knowledgable about something, so in that case you can’t resist hating

 

Yup that's it

 

I give explain and give you legitamate and long explanations and expose your comment, and all you say 'Yup that's it' Elaborate, I see 'Yup THAT'S it' And I think 'WHAT'S it?' I don't get what my comment shows negative about me, all it tells me is that I know what I'm talking about and no one will beat me in an arguement, what do you see in me comment that makes you say 'This tells me exactly what I need to know about you.'?

 

The Prime Muhammad Ali, 1964-1967 was the best version of Ali, he had footwork, reflexes, and speed.He beat the likes of Sonny Liston, Floyd Patterson, George Chuvalo, Henry Cooper,Brian London, Karl Mildenberger, Cleveland Williams, Ernie Terrell, and Zora Folley, in his title defenses to the point that Yank Durham was afraid to have up and coming Joe Frazier near him, hoping he would go to prison for his conviction of Draft Evasion in 1967. The FOTC Ali was rusty, lacked prime reflexes, was easier to hit, and started to show facial injuries, something that prime Ali did not. Yank Durham was no longer afraid to have Joe fight Ali. Ali did hit a little harder but was more vulnerable, although his opponents were a lot tougher and younger. The older Ali lacked stamina that the younger prime Ali had with the emergence of Rope A Dope, which did not help his health any.