If Rocky didn't retire when he did, who do you think would have been the first guy to beat him?

I think the natural order of things is for all fighters to decline when they hang around too long. When this happens a great fighter can wind up losing to a guy he previously would beat. It is the same for everyone. What comes around, goes around.

A young Mike Tyson beats Kevin McBride.

 

Marciano herniated a disk in his back in '56, this would cause a massive, massive change/downgrade in his training regime, not to mention he started to dislike boxing and would probably skip days. His aging body would come in at 195ish, beats Floyd Patterson via sheer willpower and strength in the late rounds (a feat which would've taken his '52 self 3-5 rounds). Skip ahead to late '57 and we've got a fight against Ingemar Johansson. Legitimate 50/50 fight for a shot Rocky, again I favor Rocky

In '58 he takes an easy fight. Probably against Italy's champ. Mid round knockout due to gap in genetics.

A nearing 40, shot back, family lorned Rocky faces Liston in '59 and is knocked out brutally

 

I don’t think Liston would be in contention until after beating Foley and Machen in1960.

Sonny is not getting a shot before Johansson did with the guys he fought before 1960.

 

Liston

 

You think Rocky could keep going till 1962?

 

Machen was a defensive counter puncher with a solid chin. He could have beaten an older Marciano. Patterson ould do the job, but I think his style and lack of durability would do him in,


1956

[url]Floyd Patterson[/url], Champion

1. [url]Tommy (Hurricane) Jackson[/url]
2. [url]Archie Moore[/url]
3. [url]Harold Carter[/url]
4. [url]Willie Pastrano[/url]
5. [url]Eddie Machen[/url]
6. [url]Bob Satterfield[/url]
7. [url]Ingemar Johansson[/url]
8. [url]Bob Baker[/url]
9. [url]Zora Folley[/url]
10. [url]Wayne Bethea[/url]

1957

[url]Floyd Patterson[/url], Champion

1. [url]Eddie Machen[/url]
2. [url]Zora Folley[/url]
3. [url]Willie Pastrano[/url]
4. [url]Roy Harris[/url]
5. [url]Pat McMurtry[/url]
6. [url]Nino Valdes[/url]
7. [url]Mike DeJohn[/url]
8. [url]Wayne Bethea[/url]
9. [url]Alex Miteff[/url]
10. [url]Ingemar Johansson[/url]

1958

[url]Floyd Patterson[/url], Champion

1. [url]Ingemar Johansson[/url]
2. [url]Nino Valdes[/url]
3. [url]Zora Folley[/url]
4. [url]Henry Cooper[/url]
5. [url]Willie Pastrano[/url]
6. [url]Archie Moore[/url]
7. [url]Eddie Machen[/url]
8. [url]Brian London[/url]
9. [url]Sonny Liston[/url]
10. [url]Mike DeJohn[/url]

 

There was certainly never a keenness to fight Nino Valdes as has been pointed out elsewhere on this thread. I Rocky had defended against Valdes after the Archie Moore fight it may have bee 1 too many.

 

If the Rock could have gotten past Floyd (presuming Cus would make the match), I could see Pastrano being the one to pull it off against an aging, slower Marciano.

 

Thing is when Rocky retired after the Moore fight there was really no one around- Baker was Ko'd by Moore and Satterfield and Valdes was dropped in the 10th by Bob Satterfield losing a UD- fights against any of those mentioned were not marketable ....Patterson was not moving up until Marciano retired. Floyd was all wrong for Marciano - pressure and power that Marciano possessed and solid chin and 15 round conditioning. Machen was smart good boxer but remember Ingo KO'd Machen in 1 in 1958 so If Marciano was still in somewhere near the form of the Archie fight he gets Machen with his power or attrition could go early or could go into the Championship rounds but I don't see Machen doing it. Ingo would be interesting because there would be action but I don't see him going 15 rds at a Marciano pace or taking Rocky's power but that fight would make money and interest.

If Marciano stayed in the game 4 more years it would be 1959 1960 and Sonny Liston was making a name for himself although he did not get the title shot until 9/25/62 - I don't see Marciano staying around that long even if he was still winning. He had problems with Al Weil over $ and the intense training caused him back injuries.

In retrospect Marciano made the right decision - Great heavyweight career - fought everyone - every color and the men who deserved title shots and like Lennox Lewis got out on top of his game 49-0 43 KO's ATG forever.

Marciano said "if the Great Joe Louis could not beat father time, Im certainly not going to try"

 

nice post.

That's it in a nutshell. We've talked about this before about seeing the back issues very visible in the Moore fight. That is not getting better or even staying the same, it'd be worse. And a guy like Marciano has to stay low.

 

Too bad it was not for the title, Floyd Patterson and Eddie Machen fought on July 5 1964, Floyd won by unanimous decision in Sweden. Floyd had Eddie hurt several times during the fight.

 

This was the 1958 Ring magazines top 10 heavyweights

Floyd Patterson- Champ

1. [url]Ingemar Johansson[/url]
2. [url]Nino Valdes[/url]
3. [url]Zora Folley[/url]
4. [url]Henry Cooper[/url]
5. [url]Willie Pastrano[/url]
6. [url]Archie Moore[/url]
7. [url]Eddie Machen[/url]
8. [url]Brian London[/url]
9. [url]Sonny Liston[/url]
10. [url]Mike DeJohn[/url]

 

What if Roy Harris was the one to take him out!

 

Like Roy Harris

 

I'd say Patterson, but with that chin, I don't know. By the time Ingo was on the scene I'd be comfortable picking him.