Who else would have beaten Gerry Cooney in 1982?

He loses more than he wins.

And then consider the cause and effect it would have=====koby results. Then he has to fight 3 or 4 more tough matchups.

He is not the type to win tough and competitive bouts for any duration of time. And what I really do not like with him is the attrition factor from losses. He was very very poor at that and it was the opposite for the other guys we are talking about.

Another factor is the DKP factor. Most of those guys were with King. So Gerry is going to go into the lions den for the wins. Just do not see that kind of results given his corner and his management.

 

Cooney was a pretty good fighter. Thing is, he didn't get the right seasoning fights imo in the lead up to the Larry Holmes fight. He should have been developed better. That's on himself and his team.

I don't think he ever beats Larry, but he could and should have won a belt imo against some of the other guys around at the time. Gerry seemed to take the loss against Holmes hard and didn't seem the same after that. I don't think he would have had any dominant reign as champ, but I think he was good enough to win a belt. He didn't prove it though.
In sports, losing happens, so he should have got back in the ring and met the better contenders to follow up that good showing in the Holmes bout.

 

You could well be right MM.

 

Page was possibly the best of them. But after the loss to Berbick he was very erratic. Cooney could be 50-50 with an in form Page but Gerry is likely a huge favourite if ever they met. Look at Cooneys form against common opponents. George Chaplin And Jimmy Young?

That Cooney wound up taking that beating from Holmes and never got going again afterward can point to Cooney being beaten by Page. I acknowledge that. But had they fought before Gerry met Larry, I believe Cooney would crush him because he was slightly ahead of where Page was at that time. Like I say, 79-83 I would back Gerry against anyone but Larry. And I think on that timescale it stands up.

 

Disagree.

Lyle was ko'd by Lynn Ball. In 2. Ball was destroyed by Dokes. And Lyle was ruined after that Foreman bout and was having tough fights against every single opponent he fought > Foreman.

Did you catch Norton against Cobb and Ledoux? Not much gas in the tank. Now putting him in with a hitter===expecting different results than the Shavers bout? In his prime Norton has major problems with hitters. Now an old version?

He had a natural local rivalry with Snipes. They never fought. Why not fight a guy like Snipes? They yapped a lot and never did fight.

And by what miracle work is Victor Valle, of all people, going to introduce Gerry to defense? How about head movement? The only thing Gerry ever did when an opponent threw a punch was to pinch his shoulders together to brace himself. that or he got hit clean.

 

Ok the guy was a joke,a taxi driver would beat him , we agree now?

 

He beats all of them in my book. Managment held him back and screwed with his confidence along with Victor Valle

 

Lyle beat Joe Bugner and Stan Ward after losing to Foreman so I don’t think he could have been that ruined. Yes Ball knocked him out, but Ron was on his way back after two KO wins by the time he met Cooney. I’m not saying Ron was that great a win, but guys like Page, Tucker and Tubbs all went the distance with Young after Cooney stopped him.

Dokes beating Ball 25 months and nine fights after his unusual win over Lyle lacks appeal because Marty Monroe had exposed Ball just two fights after the Lyle win.. it made Balls Lyle win out to be a fluke if anything.

yeah, Norton struggled with Ledoux and Cobb. But those guys couldn’t knock Norton out could they? And Cobb was certainly of the level of Michael Dokes. He barely beat him! Ledoux drew with Leon Spinks, drew with Norton and took Lyle to a split decision. So he was current when Ken fought him.

I agree that Snipes would be a perfect opponent for Cooney. He should have fought him. I don’t know who’s fault it was Cooney didn’t fight guys like that, but Gerry was worse off not meeting that kind of guy.

like I say, up to 1983 only Page would have been a threat to him. And no way would Page be any kind of massive favourite. Larry was a lot better than both Cooney and Page. And he had the experience and seasoning over each of them.

 

Lol holmes fanboys is not going to say anything bad about a victim of Larry,of course every guy that he did beat was a tremendous fighter who could beat anybody except Holmes. I'm surprised that still no of them said that 1982 cooney would beat Foreman based on their fights with Lyle Lol

 

Lyle barely got by Bugner and Ward. Split decisions. And I thought he lost to Ward who was a novice guy at the time. did you see the fight? Lyle looked horrible.

Did you watch the Norton--Ledoux fight? almost everyone thought the ref waved it off and Norton was stopped. Think about that a little---Scott Ledoux. his best win was over who? Let alone his best ko win.

Same with the Cobb fight. Very close call for Norton. Most thought he lost. And here was an ideal opponent for Kenny at that stage--minimal power. face first. stood right in front of you.

I think none of those guys, at the time, were getting victories over good fighters. You do.

 

But like I said, ledoux and Cobb were not so far from Dokes, Tate, Leon Spinks, Weaver kind of level. They were current at that time. And They took ken close.

 

In 82:Thomas, Page, Dokes, Witherspoon.

Up to '85, I'd add Tubbs and Michael Spinks.

 

This shows your lack of context. Tubbs beat a Page who held the WBA championship after koing Coetzee.
Bugner beat a sadly degraded version of Page who had lost to Tubbs, Douglas and Mark Wills over two years later.

We're way to knowledgeable to fall for elementary stuff like this.

Prime 1985 Tubbs had the jab and handspeed, and even more importantly the footspeed to easily outpoint the plodding Cooney. He moved better than Holmes, actually. The only question would be if he stood in front of Cooney too long and allowed Cooney to hit him with a big left hook. A 230 lbs or less Tubbs moves and boxes and easily outpoints Cooney.

Tubb's easy decision wns over a prime Bonecrusher and a still good Page far outweigh Cooney's wins over a sadly degraded Lyle, who was KOd by Lynn Ball before facing Cooney, a degraded Norton who always had trouble with punchers, even wen prime, and a Jimmy Young who had lost twice to Ossie Ocassio and to Michael Dokes in the year and a half before facing Cooney.

 

Obviously that is not true, or what I am saying at all. How about you come up with something that proves what you are saying?

Larry fought guys like Zannon, Evangelista, Rodriguez And Ledoux who were never given a chance to win and had all lost fights before facing Larry. If I thought every victim of Larry was so great how can this stand up?

Fact is, for a short time, Cooney really was The biggest legitimate new threat to the heavyweight championship class. You cannot say that about any of the rival champions going into their belt winning bouts. Or for that matter any of the other challengers to Larry Holmes.

During the Holmes era, there were a lot of guys all at the same level. Good fighters individually. More talented than today’s crop. But nothing that stood out. Nobody was raving about anyone coming through. There was just a bunch of guys all about the same level. Good. Nothing else looked like a legitimate threat to the championship. Just Cooney.

 

And what exactly was the WBA title in those days? Maybe it was worth #3 to #5 in the world? It is a real pity that it was ever taken as seriously as it was in those days. They plucked John Tate and Coetzee from bottom half of a real top ten to represent their belt once Ali retired even though Holmes was cleaning up the top of the division (Norton, Shavers x2 And Ocasio who had replaced Young). Then a guy called Weaver, who failed in a challenge to Holmes’s half of the title, beat the WBA winner..and eventually that belt fell to the South African they originally selected on his third attempt. Page, fresh off two back to back losses, most recently to a buxom 13-0 David Bey for the USBA title, was actually considered a safe opponent for the South African WBA darling. Yet he won! If you take the WBA strap out of the equation, beating Page, in 1984, was nothing more than beating the third best heavyweight in the world. If that. .And that’s who Tubbs beat. Big deal.

Prime Tubbs was a wasted talent. Granted. People say that because he didn’t amount to much. He never beat anyone regarded the best in the world. Page was about the third best. He lost to Bey, Berbick and Witherspoon. He just happened to have a belt. And it is Tubbs best win?

Bonecrusher was rated number 9 in the ring top ten when he challenged Larry. Fresh off that loss Bonecrusher (never the cleverest boxer) was outscored by the tricky spoiler Tony Tubbs. Tubbs beat Page when Page was 1-2 in his last 3 fights? His next best win was outpointing Jimmy Young some two years earlier.

Cooney beating Lyle and Young was no shakes either. But at least he stopped a better version of young than Tubbs outpointed. And three years earlier.