If Duran face McCallum instead of Hearns, who you got?

Yeah, it showed. The fact is Duran struggled to make weight from the moment the big purses came and he could EAT as much STEAK as he wanted.

It is a rare man indeed who is still growing at 28 or 26 years old. A man is typically finished growing at age 23. Duran didn't "outgrow the weight" he ate himself out of the division. His metabolism was slowing down, there was money to be made, and glory to be had.

Duran a "big welterweight"...? That's just silly. His best performance was against Leonard, because his motivation was on fire. He hated Leonard with a hatred born of envy, so got up for the job. That doesn't translate into him morphing into a "natural welterweight." That simply reflects a failure to comprehend what is meant by the term.

Floyd came in at 134 twice in 2002, and again in 2003 and at 135 in 2004. That makes him a natural LW in my book. What is the problem? Please reassure me that you don't believe he was 'not a lightweight' because he didn't come in at "135."

Mosely came in at or around 135 in 1996 until 1999. That's about right too.

Both fighters are natural LWs. They were LWs at their best. They are now competing at WWs. They are 5'8 and and 5'9 respectively with at least 6 inch reach advantages over Duran.

Do you believe that either man could take a 24 year old Ray Leonard...? I don't. Duran did. If either man steps up to MW, challenges and defeats Pavlik, I'd be enormously impressed. Is the picture getting clearer?

 

1. Its documented he struggled to make weight for the 3rd Dejesus fight at the age of 26, he had many over the limit fights too and was cearly increasing his weight.

Duran wasnt going up in weight to get big money fights, he left lightweight 3-4years before he got a big money Leonard fight and wasnt making big money for years. He could have hung in there for big money fight with Arguello or Sanchez

2. Mens bodies add lean muscle mass with age, after 25 metabolism slows and you tend to weigh more. Few fighters dont go up in weight after their 25th birthday, they can still be in fighting shape, but they naturally add man strength at this age

3. Duran grew to be very stocky and muscular at WW, much more so than he wasat LW. He also didnt have an ounce of fat on him

4/5. Yes and now Mayweather and Mosley are fully grown Welters without who couldnt make LW in a million years. Mayweathers peak was from 130-140, it doesnt mean hes past it at 147, just somewhat less effective. Much like Duran

6. Durans about the same height and stockier, Duran isnt as small as you like to make him out to be

7. No I dont think either man beats Leonard at 147, I also dont think you'll be making excuses for losses either man has at 147-154, which in essence is the point

 

People who like to eat always increase their weight.

Wrong. Arguello and Sanchez put together would not have earned him what Leonard did.

When I was 25, I was 157 and at my best. Now I'm 183, in my 30s and spar as a LHW. Oh, I got more man-strength, but this is boxing. Boxing relies on speed and reflexes far more than "man-strength."

There may be a few exceptions, but Duran is not one of them. He was a terror in his natural division. He wasn't as he hit 30 and beyond. Boxing is a young man's sport. Concede the point.

You're talking about one fight that he was on fire for. A year from then he was 30.

So you are saying that because their age makes it difficult to reach 135, they are more comfortable at 147, but are less effective. What on earth do you think I'm trying to tell you? Concede the point!

What are you talking about? Duran was 5'7 and a natural LW with added poundage campaigning against larger men. Am I claiming that he was 5'3?

I see a point -on the dunce cap your wearing on your head.

 

I think we have to note that mosely took full advantage of the '24 hour' weigh in rule,otherwise he probably would not have been able to compete at lightweight with a 'same day' weigh in. (mayweather would still have been a lightweight,because he wasnt one to dehydrate himself to make weight.)
Also,moseley and mayweather have both added on 'muscle' and 'quality' weight by means of weight training,nutrition and 'such like'. Duran just basically either got fatter,or lost less weight from his walk around 'ricky hatton' 'fatty' weight. I would suggest both moseley and mayweather are leaner and carry more quality muscle mass than duran did as a welterweight. I think mosley and mayweather could never go back to 135 or even 140 now without being severely weakened,because the weight they have added is solid quality muscle. ( not quite the same,but similar to the difficulties jones and byrd had when coming back down.) Wheras i feel duran could have still made 140 and possibly 135 (especially with a '24 hour weigh-in'.) if he had the discipline,because the weight he added was of a different kind. (muscle,water and fat combo.)
Having said all that,at 147 i believe duran was still a force of nature,still as great as he was at 135 (even though he was a small welter.) and thats because in my personal opinion the move up DID have benefits for him and it did increase his 'physicality'. (which is counterbalanced by the added 'physicality' of the opponents he has to face.)

 

At this point in time, probably Mike, in a good fight.

 

Mike always took things as a personal insult to motivate him. He said comments to Hagler at the boxing hall of fame which had nothing to do with the truth. Saying after Hagler said he respect him"how can you respect me if you didn't give me money to feed me and my family". Hagler retired before Mike fought Kalambay.

 

I think Duran wins. People have to realize what beat Duran was Hearns. Hearns had a great right and Duran had to take it and he didn't. But if a guy doesn't have a right hand Duran could fight him and be in range and land his punches. Hearns was the variable. And Mike was not as experienced here as he later would be. I edge it for Duran.

 

Agree. McCallum was pretty much an irrelevancy when Hagler was middleweight champion. He only made a name for himself after he beat Curry.

Now, I suppose you could argue that Hagler fought another light-middleweight in John Mugabi in 1986 so why not Mike? Mugabi was an easy sell - a promoter's dream - who had knocked out everyone he fought. ("Could he knock out the impregnable dominant middleweight champion?")

McCallum just didn't have a name at that time that could sell a fight with Hagler. It was never a question of McCallum being too good that Hagler was ducking him, just a case of him not having a profile to make such a fight. He only started to get that once he knocked out Curry. But Hagler was done by that point.

 

Me either , The Duran of the Moore fight beats McCallum up at 154

 

Actually it was MAG1965 himself in a second username made to support himself!!!!! Who woulda thunk?!?!?!?!

 

McCallum has everything in his favour here. He's arguably as good boxing skill and defense as Benitez who won a shut out against Duran. James Toney considers McCallum to be the most skilled opponent he ever faced. Offensively he has far more in his locker than Benitez. More workrate, better body attack, more power. He's also stronger and bigger.

So a McCallum shut out or late KO.

My feeling about Duran is he could beat the B Class guys above lightweight but not the A Class. Leonard was obviously A Class but he fought a poor gameplan. As soon as he switched it up to sticking and moving Duran was chasing shadows.

McCallum was a very smart boxer and wouldn't play into Duran's hands like Leonard and Hagler did to differing degrees

McCallum is several levels above Moore

 

I think Duran could win this fight in 1984. Mike was a slower starter than Hearns was and Duran was still good. The excuse that Duran was old and that is why Hearns won, does not make sense considering the Hagler fight was 7 months before and one weight class up. What a tough fight to pick. Duran would be in range maybe, and Mike was fast. It would go 12 that is all I know.

 

I didn't catch it. How did I support myself?

 

although at that time McCallum was still relatively inexperienced. And Mannion went 15 rounds with him. Hearns vs. Duran was scheduled for 12. I think a 15 round fight favors Duran and 12 favors maybe Mike.. Either way I would favor Duran at 154 in 1984.

 

I'm going for McCallum in this one.