Just found this article on p4p: https://www.*****.net/2020/01/29/p4p-number-one-history/ Do you think this is accurate? Not sure what the judgement is based on - whether it was boxing magazines of the time or other rankings but there are a few judgements I take issue with. Here's the full list (EDIT: WITH MY COMMENTS IN BRACKETS AND BOLD) 1970 Jan: Jose Napoles (PROBABLY) Dec: Joe Frazier (DEBATABLE) 1973 Jan: George Foreman (DEBATABLE) 1974 Jan: Muhammad Ali (DEBATABLE) 1978 Feb: Roberto Duran (PROBABLY) Sept: Muhammad Ali (NO) 1979 Oct: Roberto Duran (PROBABLY BUT BY June 1980 DEFINITELY) 1980 Nov: Sugar Ray Leonard (YES) 1982 Feb: Marvin Hagler (YES BUT PROBABLY LATER - post-Leonard retirement in Nov 82) 1987 April: Sugar Ray Leonard (NO) Aug: Mike Tyson (YES) 1990 Feb: Pernell Whitaker (NO) Mar: Julio Cesar Chavez (YES until OCT 93) 1993 Sep: Riddick Bowe (NO) Nov: Evander Holyfield (NO) 1994 April: Pernell Whitaker (YES BUT EARLIER- FROM OCT 93) 1997 April: Oscar De La Hoya (DEBATABLE - probably Roy Jones by end of 1997) 1999 Sept: Felix Trinidad (NO - ROY JONES) 2001 Sept: Bernard Hopkins (DEBATABLE - but probably no 2 behind ROY JONES) 2002 Sept: Roy Jones Jr. (YES BUT WAY EARLIER - 1997-2003) 2004 May: Bernard Hopkins (YES PROBABLY) 2005 July: Floyd Mayweather (YES PROBABLY) 2010 Nov: Manny Pacquiao (YES BUT EARLIER - 2008-2009 in between Mayweather's retirement) 2011 Sept: Floyd Mayweather (DEBATABLE - between him and Manny until 2012) 2016 Sept: Roman Gonzalez Nov: Manny Pacquiao / Andre Ward 2017 Andre Ward Sept: Gennady Golovkin 2018 Gennady Golovkin May: Vasyl Lomachenko 2019 Vasyl Lomachenko May: Canelo Alvarez August: Lomachenko
looks accurate enough... however I don't go on such achievement bases to Rate fighters, they CAN't accurately account for ALL Circumstances or ALL Fighters... Fighters at the Top ARE Among the Best, with more often than not little in between them. there are of course wonders, like SRR and such, but they are in the minority. MOST Top Fighters ARE Great.
Foreman in January 1973 doesn't look right as it's based on a single win, but it's not clear cut who would have been the best choice. Foster was coming off the loss to Ali, and Duran had just dropped a decision to Dejesus. Napoles and Monzon would be the front runners I'd say. Some of the dates look off, as Ali didn't beat Foreman until October 1974. Ali in 1978 is wrong by any estimation, as he clearly wasn't even the best heavyweight at that time and was a fading force. Retrospective P4P lists tend to be more difficult, as you're looking at a snapshot in time but with the added complication of knowing what happens next. For example, someone like Jeff Chandler would have reasonably been placed high on P4P lists prior to his fight with Sandoval, but when you know he's getting a one-sided beating in his next fight that clouds your judgement. Roman Gonzalez got P4P recognition later in his career, but with the benefit of hindsight he was clearly past his peak level and weight as evidenced by the losses to Sor Rungvisai. A list may well have made sense at the time, but look very iffy with the passage of time. I don't think we can be too critical of any list in retrospective, as long as there is a clear and consistent set of criteria used.
Good post. I've also noticed that with lesser known fighters (usually lower weight and competing in other countries), their P4P ranking doesn't usually wind up coinciding with their actual peak and is almost more of a lifetime achievement award. The unfortunate thing about that is most fans only hear about them after they start declining, and can get the wrong impression that the fighter was overrated all along when, in reality, they just didn't get U.S. exposure at the peak of their powers.
Thanks for the comments. My view is that a p4p list like this should only be reflective of their status at that time. I agree that some of the dates are off and also some of the fighters should or shouldn't be on there - Ali in 78 is clearly a terrible call for p4p no. 1. I'd also say that of the moment p4p lists can be summarised as 'what have you done lately?' A fighter doesn't have to lose to lose his p4p placing, he can look bad or start slipping ot just be putting in more inconsistent performances to drop off the top - Pernell Whitaker is an example of that. It's also not a lineal title so the guy who beats the p4p no. 1 doesn't automatically become no. 1. He has to have the body of work to back it up. Frankie Randall didn't become number 1 p4p when he beat Julio Cesar Chavez to hand him his first loss, for example. I'm also not a fan of heavyweights as p4p number 1 as it kind of defeats the point of these lists in my view but there are some cases where it's pretty much indisputable (e.g. Tyson in the late 80s). I'll update the list with my own comments. Let me know if you agree.
I can see Jones from Nov 94 to 2003, certainly. He was at least top 2 or 3 from the Toney fight onwards that's for sure. Whitaker was still pretty hot in 94 though - I'd say by 96 he'd started to slip quite a bit whereas Roy was peaking by then. Monzon would certainly be a good choice at least for some point in the 70s - after he beat Napoles in 74 and definitely after he beat Valdez in 76. Duran would run him close during the 74-76 period though. Zarate is a fair shot for 77 (after KOing Zamora) and Gomez would be in contention for the top spot from 78 onwards (after KOing Zarate), but Duran's unification over DeJesus in Jan 78 would edge it for him, I'd say. Arguello is a good pick from 75 on but I wouldn't put him above Duran, particularly after the loss to Vilomar Fernandez in 78. Chavez definitely upped his rep in 87 with the Rosario win and was probably no. 2 behind Tyson in the late 80s until Tyson lost in Feb 90 and Chavez took the top spot a month later with his win over Taylor. That's my take on it, anyway.
