people also forget that Foreman was coming off of a 15 month layoff and a devastating loss when he took on Lyle. I often wonder if George fought Ron around the same time he annihilated Frazier If things would have ended with less drama
Whilst I'm in absolute agreement, styles matter. Frazier also straight up better than Lyle. Made no difference. I take we both know that Foreman was mentally shot? I mean, it's pretty evident but agenda's can look over it. Anyway, Lyle was a boxer puncher, he didn't storm straight at Foreman constantly, he was able to jab and reset whilst fighting backwards. Obviously Marciano is a swarmer who only fought on the front foot. Foreman could also force him back, Lyle, on the otherhand, was able to fight going backwards and Marciano isn't. Lyle also had better footwork and a defence. Do you think Marciano represents a Lyle more than a Frazier?
oh that’s it. Ron lyle was a 6'3. 220 ripped pounds guy! Call everything off. Ron was ripped! Big muscle Alert! My god, It’s all down to pounds shillings and pence with you people isn’t it? The tape measure says Lyle was bigger. Didn’t help him much against Jerry Quarry. yeah this matchup Rocky was always going to be the underdog. That’s fine. Underdogs do win. George was himself 4-1 underdog to lose to Joe Frazier. Can you believe that! Do you know why that was? Do you want me to tell you? It was because the experts all decided the man who beat Ali would crush George Foreman. George was fighting terrible mismatches in 1972. (Check out Terry Sorrell and Joe Murphy Goodwin) A guy who beat Ali deserved to beat a guy who was feasting on those kinds of mismatches. George was largely thought of as pretty much an untested newcomer. The problem was of course was, that Frazier was no longer strictly the man who beat Ali. What nobody thought to do was to base Frazier on the guy who was only beating Ron Stander and Terry Daniels. So George was not fighting the guy who beat Ali. George was only fighting a guy who beat Terry Daniels and Ron Stander. And this is a fair statement. The record shows that Frazier was never again capable of winning a fight at elite level. Joes next best win after this was perhaps Jerry Quarry second time around, a guy like Joe who was also a veteran from the 1960s era. George was strictly a 70s Guy. Now none of this proves Marciano can beat Foreman. If you want to believe he can smash Marciano to smithereens, that’s fine by me. You are entitled to it. All I am saying is there is absolutely nothing ridiculous about siding with a rank outsider who happens to be an undefeated ATG, never knocked out, who cleaned out a division, hit tremendously hard going against a powerful but inexperienced champion with Stamina issues who was knocked out and decked by lighter hitting fighters. And what should be abundantly clear to you is that there is no cause for offence pointing this out since it is all factually correct.
Marciano is a swamer-brawler. Lyle was a brawler in that fight. Marciano would throw wild full torque punches that could hurt Foreman, Foreman would be wary I've talked about this whole stupid argument of "Frazier = Marciano" before, they have different styles, Marciano is much more raw than Frazier, Frazier's punching is a switchblade, Marciano's is a machete with a shitty handle Marciano, in my eyes, is more of a half Foreman half Frazier breed rather than akin to Frazier. Also Lyle used negative head movement against Foreman
Didn’t Ron Lyle who gave George life and death get stopped by someone called Lynn Boyle a couple of years later???? Me thinks Rocky could handle anyone called Lynn pretty easy.
How mentally shot was Foreman when he lost his temper, allowed himself to get frustrated and punch himself out against 32 year old Muhammad Ali? Wasn’t this after his best two wins? yeah Swarmers fight on the front foot. Rocky did swarm. But he countered too. He created openings. He smothered. He punched his way in and he punched inside. What is George going to do about that? It is over simplifying to categorise Marciano as a swarmer, therefore he needs to fight going backwards and he can’t here because he is a swarmer. How about Marciano is a counter pressure fighter? versatility is less important than being effective. Foreman can bull Marciano around, but Rocky doesn’t have to be able to fight going backwards. Rocky just has to land more punches than he is hit with. He can smother and maul and frustrate George, restricting his leverage. Or he can counter George with a right hand over the top just like Lyle did. Lyle had more conventional footwork than Marciano but it was no more effective. As for defence I positively disagree that Lyle had a better defence than Marciano especially if the definition of defence is getting hit less. I think Lyles righthand that stood Foreman on his head was definitely a punch Marciano can replicate. Rocky doesn’t have to tall or heavier to do that.
I agree. But Lyle did things, which easily contributed to his success, that Marciano doesn't do. It's inarguable that being able to fight off the back foot and keep Foreman out of position to throw his bombs played into his hands. I agree, Marciano and Frazier aren't the same. Completely agree with your style assessment, but based on how this fight would happen, it'd be Marciano rushing towards Foreman, getting hit and forced back and then unloaded on. Be it over in 1,2, 3 or 4. It looks more like the Frazier/Norton fights, stylistically, than the Lyle fight. Marciano's wingers could stumble Foreman, but I see him just keeping Marciano at bay with a stiff arm and/or shove. Also, just semantically nit-picking, but short punches are the way to get the most torque on a punch. The type Marciano didn't throw. What Marciano did was get brilliant leverage from letting momentum pass threw his feet. Just a word error, but I know what you meant.
I think if, and it’s a big if, Rocky can drag himself through the first 5/6 rounds there’s a big, big chance he can win by stoppage. I feel this is a lot more likely and more realistic than Foreman taking Marciano’s head off in a single round.
I think Rocky might counter this. Rocky is lower, sure Foreman is stronger, but George is lowering his arms further to put his hands on Rocky who is planted much more sideways. Rockys front foot is that further forward that I don’t think it can keep him at Bay in the way you might think. If anything, with Foremans arms lowering and his chin rising George could be exposing himself to looping punches reaching him on the blind side.
Absolutely makes a lot more sense. In what other circumstances can a one round knockout (against a fighter who does not get knocked out) ever be taken seriously?
That’s right. Norton explained on “champions forever” that he was luring George forward or something. Anyway, whatever he did Norton was a sitting duck. He was stepping back and It suited George who helped himself.
