Foreman vs Marciano

Absolutely nothing. Especially If all Marciano ever was is “an aggressive guy who lacks defence”. However Marciano had more than this. He hit incredibly hard with lead shots, especially with the hand that Foreman was most susceptible to, had more experience and seasoning in his prime and could go all day without slowing down. Rocky did got hit. He would not be safe or invincible in this matchup. But he was more than aggressive or lacking in defence!

 

The thing is Marciano is giving up 40lbs in muscle mass, 10 inches in reach and 5 inches in height. Foreman can jab him off balance and push him off balance very easily. If Rocky is pushed backwards, he loses his leverage. If he's off balance it will open him up to Foreman's arsenal of blows

Lyle was the same size as Foreman, so didn't have the massive reach/height/strength disadvantages. By the time Marciano is in punching range he will be very open to uppercuts and left hooks.

Yes Rocky probably lands a few right hands, but he'd land far less because of his issues with range and balance.

I also doubt a 188lb man would have the durability to take Foreman's punches, given pretty much no one had the durability to take Foremans punches. Where as I think Foreman would fancy his chances to win the exchange of blows with Marciano.

 

maybe they do maybe they don’t. Who knows for sure. Ali took out Quarry and Bonavena quicker than Frazier.

who decided Rocky looked worse against worse opposition? Moore, Walcott and Charles were at least as high regarded as Ellis, Quarry and Bonavena. Ali is a higher watermark certainly..but Foreman never beat the guy who produced that effort.

who did Foreman fight who was remotely close to Marciano?

Foreman will try to push Rocky off balance before he gets into range but the way Rocky got into range was different to the way Frazier did it. Rocky would lure the man forward by leaning onto his back foot and springing up with blows from unusual angles. Because of the way Marciano stood (entirely different to Frazier) Often a fighter needed to first be in Rockys range to engage with him.

George will man handle Rocky but it will be far more difficult to nail Rocky with the uppercut than it was Frazier who stood much more square footed.

it’s a pity Charlie Goldman isn’t around for you to ask him about effective footwork. Perhaps he knew a bit more than you about it? If the object of footwork is to make a fighter effective at a better level then Rockys footwork worked better than Ron Lyles did.

so an inferior quality Ted Gullick landing so many right hands is absolutely no sign that a monster right hand hitter like Marciano cannot profit from this?

 

The difference would be similar to The weight he gave up against Old Joe Louis.

 

You misunderstand. I was not reducing rocky to being nothing more than an aggressive fighter who lacks defense. I'm aware he brought other things to the table besides pure offense. The point was that there are far more opportunities to stop an overly aggressive less defensively responsible fighter than an elusive one moving away from you (especially in the 1st round). This is statistically and blatantly obvious to anyone who has studied boxing for more than 30 minutes.

The ONLY reason you brought up Ali was to pretend like the chances of stopping him in 1 round are exactly the same as Rocky because you couldn't just gracefully acknowledge that Rocky might be stopped early. It depends on the matchup and what each guy is bringing. In Foreman's case he has pretty much the best possible tools and style to pull that off, not so much with elusive guys. Rocky on the other hand was better suited to pressuring and wearing down elusive guys.

 

Yes, but Louis was way past his peak, & he was not all lean possibly even dehydrated muscle (Dick Saddler's doing) like Foreman was.

 

This is entirely true most of the time. I agree.

Well okay then. Suppose I gracefully acknowledge the possibility of a never knocked out in one round guy being knocked out in one round... how about Joe Louis Or Vitali Klitschko? Are they as susceptible to being knocked out in one round?

 

Joe Louis was kind of like Juan Manuel Marquez. I don't know if it was a balance issue or bad anticipation but he could be dropped relatively easily. He did have very good recovery and you had to batter him into submission to stop him.

I guess it would depend on the ref. A fast accurate combination puncher could catch Joe early and not let him off the hook, and the ref could wave it off even if he's clear headed due to the number of clean punches he keeps taking and hitting the canvas constantly. Kind of like what happened to Briggs in his fight with Lennox.

Vitali is harder to guess because he knew how to lean away and use his height. He had good fundamentals and wasn't too proud to block when hurt. He also had a granite chin and i don't think he was down more than once, but then again his competition wasn't the greatest and he didn't face many elite punchers. I really don't think it would be possible in the first round outside of a freak 1/100 nuclear bomb from say a tyson or wilder while he's still warming up.

 

Ken Norton’s footwork was effective to close distance but it was as lurching and unconventional as Marcianos too. I thought you preferred textbook? I won’t knock it, since it worked but aesthetically Ken’s rear leg was carried around behind him like he was dragging it. He did not distribute weight from one leg to the other as effectively as Marciano. That’s for sure.

Norton’s “punch structure” was superior to Marciano? in what way? His use of the jab was more effective but sometimes his right hand was too far away. Sometimes Ken pushes his punches. Sometimes his punch got there before his body did. Rather than the body coming forward with the punch.although sometimes it did. If you take the Holmes fight as an example, Norton struggled to pull the trigger. His punch structure in these situations was entirely impotent.

Norton’s defence was adequate. It worked. he crossed his arms, leaned away, parried. Nothing Marciano didn’t do. Norton got caught heavily at times, his resistance exposed more.

 

Shhhhh the truth has no bearing in a Choklab argument!

 

What have you done!!!

 

No man who beat Carmine Vingo would ever be destroyed by Foreman!

 

Hahaha. Laughable.old Louis weighed 213 pounds and this fighter weighed 197 in his peak. Foreman in his peak weighed 225. Louis was 6'2 and Foreman close to 6'4.

 

They'll still be debating this in 2030..

 

Your not racist Chok, anyone that's seen your post knows that.