Where is Aaron Pryor on the P4P ATG List?

God no. I mean, I love Pryor, and I wouldn't rate him that high. For top 20, you are in some seriously rare company and Pryor wouldn't come near it H2H or resume-wise.

He's maybe top 100 in my view (without going into much analysis) but on the cusp if he is. Top 100 is still pretty exalted company...

 

Great fighter and a true warrior. I don't do the numerical rankings anymore because it's too tough separating out guys. If I did, I'm not sure if he'd crack a top 100 just based off of how many other great fighters we've had the last 120 years, and that's cutting out anyone pre-1900.

I wish the Panama Lewis thing didn't happen, but I can't ignore it. It's the elephant in the room I think most everyone thinks of when it comes to evaluating Pryor but doesn't necessarily want to mention.

 

I have him placed at 89.
I think that's about right, for now.
But then,... I would say that..
Because I've had a drink... and because it's MY list.

 

To put top 100 in perspective, you could be one of the top 10 fighters of the decade across all weight classes- something you'd have to be truly exceptional to do- and still not make that cut. The math is brutal.

 

Exactly - it's high praise to be top 100. Was Pryor one of the 10 best of the 80s? Excitement-wise, yes he probably was. Resume wise? Maybe not.

 

Lmao Hearns puts Aaron to sleep as a pro

 

Some names off the top of my head in terms of the best of the 80s:
Holmes
Tyson
Spinks
Leonard
Hagler
Hearns

Is Pryor above any of them? No, I don't think so.

Then you've got multi-weight titlists like:
Julio Cesar Chavez
Wilfredo Gomez
Jeff Fenech
Evander Holyfield
Hector Camacho

You've also got guys who had comparable or better title reigns:
Matthew Saad Muhammad
Dwight Qawi
Jeff Chandler
Donald Curry
Azumah Nelson
Salvador Sanchez
Eusebio Pedroza

You've then got little guys like Jung Koo Chang, Gilberto Roman, Santos Laciar, Hilario Zapata, Khaosai Galaxy, among others.

Now, that's some tough competition among more than 20 fighters for 10 places in a single decade.

Not all decades are equal of course and you could probably drill the 90s fighters and 00s fighters down to a combined top 10 to create a top 10 of equal quality with the 80s. But it does show that cracking the top 100 is tough.

 

doesn't really matter if leonard commits to brawl or any other style he beats Pryor comfortably in any situation. Hard to really call him a genuine ATG based on his pro career. I don't care what he did in the amateurs.

 

He beat Tommy in the amateurs yes. I think he had over 200 wins in the amateurs and something like 15 or 16 losses. And that was when he fought Tommy at 132 pounds more to Pryor's liking and Pryor was 20 and Tommy was 17. But Aaron was at the top when he fought Tommy and Tommy was still growing and a year from his best at amateur. Pro would have been much different. 147 pounds with Hearns then? Tommy would have gotten more distance and used that right hand.

Tommy had I think 155-8 amateur record at the end of that career there. But beyond the excuses in the professional rank Tommy never ducked Aaron. When would he have fought him? Aaron beat Arguello in the rematch in 1983, and Tommy was fighting middleweight against Sutherland that summer. Also I think Emanuel was in Pryor's corner when he fought the rematch against Arguello and I don't remember anyone talking about Pryor fighting Tommy then, and before that? When?

The Tommy ducking Pryor thing was never fact. Ray ducking Pryor? I have heard for years they signed a fight and then Ray got the injury to his eye and Pryor stopped his car and cried when he heard the new on the radio. I don't know how accurate that story is. Ray had fought Benitez, Duran and Hearns and he was ducking Pryor? As far as I know Ray got the better of sparring sessions against Aaron, and then Pryor's trainer says Pryor was taking over and Leonard's people stopped it after Pryor was knocked down. This is another situation like Mike McCallum who complained everyone ducked him. The fab 4 had guys to fight. Had they not had other legends to fight, then they would have fought Pryor. They didn't need the Pryors or McCallums and that had a lot to do with it. Obviously Leonard and Hearns and Duran and Hagler (and Benitez) got lucky to have the timing to fight the guys they fought. That is a little luck but that is a fact. This complaining by guys saying other guys ducked them doesn't really say much if the guys they say ducked them fought everyone in their era.

 

I agree. I think the power of Leonard would stop Pryor, although Pryor had that energy and style which if Ray could not stop him it could get interesting. I think the size of Ray is what wins this for him.

 

Pryor was so exciting and so omnipresent on TV in the early 80's that he was a shoo-in for P4P lists at the time. Even if others might have technically warranted it more, he was impossible not to talk about. And he was such a crowd pleaser.

He hasn't worn terribly well over the years though, and I think that's justified. His resume was decent for a stretch of two years but how much credit we should really give for the Arguello win considering Arguello's age and wear, or the Cervantes fight for the same reasons is certainly open to question. The black bottle controversy will also forever stain him, and it probably should. He's just not thought of as highly as he used to be.

 

I love the Du Juan Johnson fight from Nov. 1981. I can watch it again & again. Just a great fight on in the afternoon on a weekend.

 

I don’t think a fight against Tommy Hearns was ever a viable option as Hearns was already outgrowing the welterweight division after the showdown with Ray Leonard in 1981. There was talk on and off about a Leonard matchup but Ray was adamant that Pryor would have to move up to welterweight first for it to ever become possible plus Ray also was looking up towards the fearsome Marvin Hagler rather than down towards Pryor. IIRC, the multi-million dollar bouts that Pryor was realistically hoping for were against lightweight Champion Ray Boom Boom Mancini and after that Hector Camacho but Mancini upset defeat against Livingstone Bramble put paid to that and the timescales before Aaron’s outside the ring personal life unraveled never really allowed for any Camacho matchup.