Could Ali of beaten John L Sullivan in Bare Knuckle Boxing

I wonder what the length of the fight would be....if it was a 45 round fight, maybe Sullivan survives the first 15-20 rounds and goes on to
KO Ali late. Ali had a way of twisting his punches to cause cuts, but I bet Sullivan would bleed like crazy and not notice it.

Sullivan was smaller...5'11", but around the same weight as Ali at 210 pounds.

 

A few assumptions there.

Would Ali really move around the ring a lot in a fight that might last three hours or more?

Bear in mid that it was very hard to get a knockout, because of the 30-38 count, so a man who wanted to prolong it could do so.

That made economy of effort very important.

Was Sullivan really that small?

His best fighting weight seems to have been about 195-200 lbs, and his tale of the tape suggests that he was nearer to Frazier than Marciano physically.

Would Ali have more sophisticated skills under the LPR rule set?

This for me, is probably a big fat no!

Sullivan was not a bare knuckle specialist, but he learned the trade at the very end of its trajectory, so his technique should have been optimal, if not backed by experience.

Ali would basically have had to invent the wheel!

 

The OP says "a bare knuckle fight", which I take to mean LPR rules.

That would mean that a round would continue, until one man was either knocked down, or thrown to the ground.

After that he would have 30-38 seconds to recover, and come out for the next round, and his corner could literally drag him up to the line.

The fight would continue until one fighter could not make this very generous count.

 

A lot of good points here but can you imagine how much those heavy, heavy gloves slowed down his already blazing-fast hands? Now imagine he didn't have them on! Try holding, like a couple tiny quail eggs in your hands and playing tennis and then see what just that alone does. You'll lose every match. But then try holding chicken eggs and then maybe some goose eggs and playing ping pong. You'll lose over and over, time and time again, heaven forfend. I know. I've tried it. I talked trash, had egg all over my face and buttocks, by the end of these athletic competitions; and no one was even trying to punch me in most of them. But some of them. And they landed. And it hurt.

 

sullivan was 5’10” and had a belly. Most of his opponents were local strong men or tough guys but not trained pugilists in any organized fashion. He was nowhere near the athlete Ali was and while he knew what it was like to get hit by a bare fist or very thin gloves, none of the bearers of those punchers were George Foreman, Earnie Shavers or Sonny Liston.

 

A young John L didn't have a belly. People say the same thing about Babe Ruth...when the Babe was young he was a stud. Only got fat later in his career.
https://www.thefightcity.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Young-Sullivan-777.jpg

 

Why would defense and footwork be primitive, if they had been perfecting it for over 200 years?

Whatever could be done with bare knuckle boxing, it is fair to assume that it had probably been done by then!

The start of Queensbury boxing, was a reset button in terms of boxing technique!

As for Sullivan being small, I am not so sure.

He was 5' 11'' with a 74'' reach, but his chest and arm measurements, are nearer to Jeffries than Marciano!

 

If you think he’d beat Ali then go with it. I don’t think he would

 

Sullivan seems to have been in good shape in his early career, but he let himself go very badly later in his career.

Even so, he said that his optimum weight was higher 190s, and that sounds plausible when you tally up the evidence.

This is highly debatable.

I have looked into the matter as best I can, given the limited data available from the era.

Adam Pollack thinks that he put his title on the line more than 30 times, and nearly half of the men the he defended against by that reckoning, were at least name fighters of the era!

The rest might have been local tough men, or they might at least have been at least local level fighters.

 

I don't honestly know, but I am having fun trying to find out!

 

100% with out ANY doubt in the whole universe, ALI WHOOPS THAT BUM IN 2 SHORT ROUNDS.

Seriously, Ali don't need gloves to box. Sullivan fought back when they squared up with their wrists bent and knuckles facing them.
Ali would make him look silly.
Lets put it into modern perspective, put a dude who has only ever fought in the streets with people watching against a guy like Tyson Fury.

SULLIVAN HAS NO SKILL COMPARED TO ANY MODERN BOXER.

 

You need to learn a lot, including the bare basics of Sullivan's era!

 

Don't matter about Sullivan's era, because we are talking about ALI, who's style was from HIS ERA.

We aren't talking about an Ali who only knew the skills of Sullivan's era, because that wouldn't be Ali. That'd be some bum with the same size measurements as Ali.

Ali from 64-67 beats Sullivan easily, Ali from 71-75 beats Sullivan easily. I think Ali could have beaten Sullivan at any point in his professional career, even his last fight against Trevor Berbick while he had parkinsons. Sullivan is too outdated and would look like a SPED fighting today.
Ali would look like a wizard fighting in Sullivan's day.
SULLIVAN WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO LAND A PUNCH ON A PRIME ALI!
Ali has been quoted saying he used to go into an alley and have his brother throw rocks at him so he could practice slipping punches. He said he used to shoot dice while playing games in the street, that's where he learned to shoot his right hand.
I have no doubt in my mind that prime Ali would slip every single shot Sullivan threw.

 

You might want to go back and read the opening post.

This fight is being held under the rules of Sullivan's era, not Ali's era!

This is all being held in Sullivan's back yard!

 

Like I said, not against an Ali who was from that era.
Ali would slip every single shot, maybe Sullivan could land a body shot or two... But once Ali uses his famous pull counter (knocked Liston out in the rematch, knocked Folley out with it) it's over for Sullivan. Not to mention once Ali starts throwing combos, which he might not be inclined to do because he has no gloves on and could damage his hands, but that also means Sullivan's face is in for a world of pain.

Are you really gonna argue for some 1900s bum going against the GOAT? I must be getting trolled