Jersey Joe Walcoott vs Jack Dempsey

Louis was pretty slow in that fight so imo it flattered Walcott.Dempsey fought nothing like Louis, he wasn't a patient stalker.

 

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I lot of that is just myth, although Cobb was undoubtedly a fierce competitor, not unusual in a top athlete.

He appeared as an older man on I've Got a Secret in the 1950's (on you tube) and turned out to be a polite, soft spoken, and gracious man. He went over and shook hands with the panel, both ladies first.

Down in his home town in Georgia Cobb built a wing on the local hospital for the care of black patients and also paid a physician out of his own pocket to provide care for the poor folks of the area.

The "evil Ty Cobb" myth is like a lot of things, way over blown.

 

Just on the early years of Walcott and Dempsey, and where they were fighting, here are the populations of the states Dempsey was fighting in compared to the populations of the cities and areas Walcott was fighting in, off the US census

1910

Nevada-----81,875
Utah---------373,351
Colorado---799,024

1930

New Jersey-----4,068,000
New York City---about 8 million
Philadelphia-----about 2 million
Camden, New Jersey-----118,900 (Walcott's home town and most frequent boxing venue)

In the 1930's Walcott was fighting in heavily populated areas which were hotbed's of boxing competition. Dempsey was fighting basically in a wilderness in what would amount to being small towns by eastern standards.

 

No. I have great books on Cobb Wagner Hornsby and all the 1900-1930 baseball players. Alexander's book from 1984 is great. I know Cobbs life back and forth and those words came from his lips bud. I will take anyone on when it comes to being a Ty Cobb phobe.

 

Dempsey was fighting in 1910?

 

No....it's an impostor!!! The real Seamus has been kidnapped and is being held in Deontay Wilder's basement!!!

 

He also was fighting in 1980

 

Can we stop with the Dempsey threads please
Also Dempsey in 7

 

Never!

 

Dempsey can win this one.

 

I stick by what I said. Charles Alexander was a historian at Ohio University, but this book was written in 1984 and a lot of research has been done and facts uncovered since.

Much of the evil Cobb stuff came from a writer named Al Stump who claimed to have been close to Cobb during his final days and quoted him on all sorts of things, including I think a supposed murder of a fan back when he was a player. Recent research has cast doubt on any of Stump's stories being valid. A peer reviewed article accuses Stump of

"extensive forgeries of Cobb-related documents and diaries. The article further accused Stump of numerous false statements about Cobb in his last years, most of which were sensationalistic in nature and intended to cast Cobb in an unflattering light."

In fairness to Alexander, his book was published almost 40 years ago and he was probably relying on what others like Stump had written. I haven't read Alexander's book to judge the quality of his research and footnoting, but some who have are not that impressed. Here is a couple of recent reviews:

"Having read multiple books on Ty Cobb, I can say with confidence that Alexander's writing is based on sloppy research."

"This book should be classified as fiction since it is filled with fabricated instances apparently created within the author's head or copied from other writers' unsubstantiated claims. Much of what is written has been disregarded as completely false, extremely exaggerated, or completely fabricated."

As for any quote, unless the man put it down in writing, or it is on a tape, all anyone ever has with a quote is that someone said he said it. It could be accurate, or distorted by the listener, or just plain false. Anyway, I can easily believe Cobb said something like "I would cut out his heart to get safely to a base," but this type of off the cuff remark hardly defines a man.

What seems to be undoubted facts:

Cobb did build a hospital with a wing for black patients and paid a salary to a black physician to provide care.

Cobb was an outspoken supporter of integrating baseball.

Cobb played exhibitions against black players and got along well with them with a survivor on tape speaking well of Cobb.

As one review of Alexander's book summed it up,

"Nobody is a saint but just straight out lying about somebody is quite shameful and distasteful."

Cobb was no saint, but not the monster of the myth either.

 

The American census is taken every ten years. I used the 1910 census for the teens. I don't think the stats would change all that much in a decade.

 

Yet in two decades they went from.

1910

Nevada-----81,875
Utah---------373,351
Colorado---799,024

1930

New Jersey-----4,068,000
New York City---about 8 million
Philadelphia-----about 2 million
Camden, New Jersey-----118,900

I think you have lost your argument,whatever it was, by using your own stats!

 

You do realize there is a difference between these three western states and the urban eastern states. These are not the same states, which is the point I am making. Boxing in Ely, Nevada, (pop about 2000 in 1910) versus New York City is quite a different thing. I think it possible to see the difference between a huge state in area like Nevada with a total population of 81,875 and states like New York. I used 1910 for the west because that is the decade Dempsey fought in these states. I used 1930 for the east because that is the decade Walcott fought in those states.