Marvin Hagler vs Roy Jones, Jr @ 160

Not even in an alternative universe does Jones beat Hagler at 160.

 

This is right......

 

No one was able to land cleanly on Jones at 160. The combination of his
super human reflexes and nothing special competition. And when his
opponents are looked at closely, it's very noticeable their isn't
one great puncher or aggressive brawler on his ledger(Which is weird,
odd) Most of the "Spectacular performances " he had can be looked at
in the same light as most great fighters performances against average
competition.
Louis destruction of Schmeling, Ali's slapping around Williams, Duran's
destruction of Dejesus 3rd fight(Dejusus wasn't average BTW) Arguello
beating up Chacon, Mayweather jr destruction of Corrales, Leonard
damn near killing Price and Green. Their are too many examples of
great fighters making average fighters look well below average.
Jones clearly passes the eye test.
But so did most great fighters, the key difference is most great
fighters had at least one fighter that was a serious threat and at
the top of their games when they faced them. That can't be said
about Jones best opposition, Mccallum ? Well beyond his prime. Toney?
Going through his lackadaisical phase. Hopkins? Green as grass,
akin to Mayweather jr victory over Alvarez, Hopkins would be a
much better fighter later in his career.
And no Toney and Hopkins were not much better than prime
Hagler defensively if they were better at all (I don't believe so)
Don't think Hagler's last 6-7 fights were he clearly had declined
and relied more on physical toughness as a indication he wasn't
defensively sound in his prime.

 

Nicely put.

 

Jones would have his #. Too quick and mobile. He would get off first and frustrate Hagler

 

Only until the middle rounds. hagler's pressure and stiff southpaw jab would catch up to him. I think hagler stops him while being behind on points. Roy just does not have the chin

 

It doesn't matter if Marvin had better fundamentals.

This is a H2H match up against what would have been a prime, 25 year old version of Roy who'd have weighed in at 170 plus on fight night.

Marvin's southpaw pressure would trouble Roy, but Roy's speed and unorthadox style would have given Marvin huge trouble.

 

Roy fought Thomas Tate a few months before he fought James Toney in 1994.

That was a peak version of Roy at 25.

 

Only you would think Roy Jones, perhaps the best boxer every at 160 pounds with blazing hand speed, and good power has no chance.

Oh sure, Hagler draws with Anrtuofermo, but Jones doesn't have a chance.

Jones wins over Toney and Hopkins are better than any natural middleweight Hagler beat.

 

I think you said it best, " No one was able to land cleanly on Jones at 160. The combination of his
super human reflexes " I disagree with the nothing special competition part you put in there as both Toney and Hopkins are Hall of fame fighters.

So why would Hagler be different? Marvin, who I like much better than Jones had issues with speed. Leonard for example, or if not Leonard use Monroe who also beat Hagler. Its there to see. To compound problems Hagler wasn't always aggressive when he needed to be, and if Hagler were to win here, its more likely via stoppage, not on points.

Marvin had guys moving up from welter to meet him. The natural middles he fought were not a top group. The big names of Hearns, Duran, and Leonard were lower weight guys. Do think any top guy in the 1990's at welter would dare mess with Jones @160?

 

There's no logic in being certain that Hagler would have won a 15 round fight, just on the grounds that Roy never fought one.

Saying that Roy was a phenomenal athlete disguised as a boxer is an ignorant statement to make.

Marvin was a great fighter.

A true ATG.

He wasn't invincible though.

Movement bothered him, and a peak, 170 plus pound Roy would have too.

People are ignoring the fact that Marvin would have been a JMW today. He often used to weigh-in below 160 back on the days of same day weigh-ins. He used to weigh-in at 157 pounds. There's WW's that weigh more than that.

Again, you have noted Roy's past prime losses.

Why?

Yes, he was vulnerable to an onslaught when he aged. But he wasn't vulnerable in that way when he was prime.

 

His reach was big for the weight class, but only equal to Roy's.

His reflexes and his hand and foot speed were nowhere near Roy's level.

 

Marvin beat nobody that Roy couldn't.

You talk about Roy's opposition, but he easily beat LHW's which were at his 3rd weight class.

Again, this is a H2H fight.

It doesn't matter if Marvin had a better MW resume.

 

Toney wasn't at middleweight and he was dead at the weight,
killing himself to get down to the contracted weight.

Toney weighed 207 pounds when he started training camp, but he was able to get down to 167 for the official weigh-in.
According to Marc Ratner, executive director of the Nevada State Athletic Commission, Toney entered the ring at 182.
Jones was 168 at the official weigh-in and went to the ring at 178
Tate and a still short of his prime Hopkins are Jones' best wins at 160lbs. Hagler takes this.

 

Why not?

We could say that the versions of Marvin who hesitated and who didn't press Duran and Leonard, wouldn't have beaten the version of Roy who iced Tate just before he fought Toney.