The size and the weight are irrelevant in boxing

You got to love this forum at times.

"Since 1961 only two fights for the lineal HW title have been won by fighters weighing less than 200 lbs: Leon Spinks at 197,25 lbs and Michael Spinks at 199,76 lbs"

"That's because all HWs of the last 60 years have been fat."

"Fury is perhaps a bit pudgy at 250-70 lbs, but none of the other lineal champions have been fat."

"Maybe not, but they would have been better off without all that excess muscle, they just don't know it."

"So everyone have been wrong but still successful, while those who have stayed under 200 lbs have been right but less successful?"

"Yes."

"Ok."

 

I have always leaned towards the general notion that a big talented fighter will usually beat a small talented fighter. Sure we can make as many references as we like to instances like Rocky Marciano knocking out Johnny Shkor or Dempsey beating a retired Jess Willard. But these kinds of examples don’t address the matter at its root. If you have two guys who are BOTH prime, BOTH fit, BOTH skilled and BOTH well managed, then the bigger guy wins..

 

Once again this whole thread is avoiding the question. How come shws didn’t rule the division prior to the creation of the cruiser division? If height and weight are THAT important then they should have. Your theory really goes to **** doesn’t it? To the geniuses wondering why there hasn’t been many fighters fighting at 190 there is a cruiser division now for that weight. One shouldn’t have to point that out

 

there’s a lot of holes in this post. for one thing you didn’t have that many super heavyweights in professional boxing prior to the 1990s.. sure they existed but they weren’t the norm. And the fact is it took boxing some time to evolve before big men knew how to fight big and use their advantages. As for your claim that the induction of the cruiser division has watered down the talent at HW, well then tell me how many truly talented cruisers have moved up in the last 40 years and been competitive ? Surely the money is much more lucrative at the higher weight... you just have to be able to move up and TAKE it but less than a handful have actually been able to do it..

 

Also raises the question why talented big guys like Haye and Usyk waste so many years cutting weight to make cruiserweight instead fighting the big boys for the big purses.

 

There is no rule that says that you have to be over the CW limit to fight at HW is there? I know that Conn was below 175 when he faced Louis and I haven't heard that it has changed.

Even if I am wrong, the top CWs are all actually above 200 lbs in the ring so they would be allowed to fight at HW even if there was such a rule. Same when the weight limit was 190 lbs., which it was into the 90's. And even before the CW divison was created in 1980 there hadn't been a sub 190 lineal champion for 18 years.

And the guys moving up and having success (Spinks, Holy and Moorer) have all put on substantial mass.

So to summarise:

1. If I'm not mistaken the CW limit doesn't prohibit fighters below it trying their luck at HW.

2. Even if I am mistaken there wasn't a lineal champion below 190 lbs for the 18 years before it was created at 190 lbs.

3. The CW champions have as far as I can see weighed in right at or near the limit, which indicates that they were above the limit in the ring. Or at the very, very least just had to put on a pound ot two to cross it. So even if I'm wrong and they had to be above the CW limit to compete at HW that wouldn't have been a problem. In fact it would have been easier in most cases since they just could have come in at their optimal weight.

4. Those that have gone up to HW and had success have put on weight to fight well above the CW limit.

 

I answered you already. Why don’t you answer the question?

 

Prior to the cruiser division how come SHWs didn’t rule the division? Most champs were between 190-215. The theory is garbage. Truth of the matter is without steroids and other PEDS the champs would still weigh in at that weight. Steroids have e allowed additional functional weight . Which any fool can do.

 

Some make it seem most us who favor skills over size insinuate we believe a great featherweight fighting at 125lbs would defeat the average Middleweight fighting at 160lbs. Most who know anything about boxing wouldn't believe that.
So they come up with this outlandish scenario as the originator of this post has done for his agenda.
I for as long as Ive been involved with, been in, and have studied boxing (and I been with it since the mid 70's)
have never heard anyone suggest they thought a man the size of a Leonard or Robinson would have a chance against an average pro heavy( But I did see a video of Leonard yrs ago sparring a man reported to be a heavyweight during a exhibition, the fighter got cute with Leonard, Leonard damn near broke him in half with a body shot)
The writer obviously is using this to push his agenda. Though he conveniently has forgotten, or purposely omitted that Roy Jones Jr, a great fighting at about 190 LBS took apart an average heavyweight Ruiz, fighting at 225lbs. This alone should make this argument null and void because it's recent enough for some of the newcomers to the sport to remember.
What his agenda suggest his Narrative is exclusively to the Heavyweights.
would great heavyweight s like Louis, Ali , Holmes , Tyson etc have a chance with the much bigger heavyweights of today. In my opnion, yes they would. Especially when a recent heavyweight champ with 9-10 title defenses jabs like an amatuer with less than 20 fights. That's when he used it at all.
So yes if a heavyweight is over 205 -210 LBS with a heavyweight reach and height has ATG skill level he will defeat a much heavier, taller heavyweight if that heavyweight has average skills. It's been demonstrated numerous times through out the long history of boxing.

 

This was my answer to your theory that the creation of the CW division made the difference:

... "So to summarise:

1. If I'm not mistaken the CW limit doesn't prohibit fighters below it trying their luck at HW.

2. Even if I am mistaken there wasn't a lineal champion below 190 lbs for the 18 years before it was created at 190 lbs.

3. The CW champions have as far as I can see weighed in right at or near the limit, which indicates that they were above the limit in the ring. Or at the very, very least just had to put on a pound ot two to cross it. So even if I'm wrong and they had to be above the CW limit to compete at HW that wouldn't have been a problem. In fact it would have been easier in most cases since they just could have come in at their optimal weight.

4. Those that have gone up to HW and had success have put on weight to fight well above the CW limit."

And the increase in size probably has to do with PEDs, at least to a degree. But that wasn't what we were discussing. We were discussing if said size is beneficial or not.

 

The top heavyweights were already getting significantly bigger in the years before the cruiserweight division was created.

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/heavyweight-size-explosion-in-the-early-1970s.588396/

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...weights-disappear-after-marcianos-era.588395/

The days of the heavyweight rankings being full of medium-sized 5'11-6'1/185-195lb men were already a thing of the past.