Joe Louis Fought Eight Black Fighters

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Mar 22, 2020.


  1. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    At the risk of stating the obvious, there were not very many black fighters ranked in the top ten, during the pre war years.

    Louis first breaks the rankings in 1934, and there was not a single black fighter in the end of year rankings, for that year or the next.

    In 1936 You have Jack Trammel at #4, and Leroy Haynes at #7.

    In 1937 you have Roscoe Toles ant #9.

    In 1938 you have Roscoe Toles at #8.

    In 1939 you have Roscoe Toles ant #9.

    In 1940 you have Otis Thomas at #9, and Lem Franklin at #10.

    Then in 1941 the breakthrough happens, with Lem Franklin finishing the year at #2, and after that black fighters start to populate the rankings.

    The bottom line is that 1934 -1940 was an era dominated by white contenders, and they were always going to be Louis's main focus.

    What we might scrutinize, is the choices that his management made, between 1941 and 1948.
     
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    In hindsight yes, but it was not so obvious at the time.
     
  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    In fairness Franklin lost by ko to Bob Pastor 3 fights after beating Simon. NB Louis fought Simon for just training expenses in their fight,his purse,over $36.000 went to the Army Relief Fund.
     
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  4. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Surprised by that number. You’d think early on Louis would of had to face more black fighters coming up.
     
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Toles made the end of year ranking in37.38,38,41,& 42.
    Turkey Thompson 41,42,43,47,49!
    Jimmy Bivins 43,45,48,49,&52!
    Ray,44,45,46,&47
     
  6. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Sadly, between Lewis and Walcott, Louis did not defend against other good black fighters such as Lem Franklin, Turkey Thompson, Harry Bobo, Elmer Ray, Lee Q Murray and Jimmy Bivins. Maybe you can even make a case for Larry Gains, though it is a very narrow window.

    He eventually fought Bivins.

    It is absolutely true that he could not have made money off of these fights, but yes, in my opinion, it does tarnish his legacy just a little, at least to the point where there is no case to be made that he is the #1 heavy over Ali, who fought everyone.
     
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  7. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I never felt that Franklin having to fight Pastor was necessary to get to Louis. Winning 18 strait fights and beating Simon twice should have been enough.
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Nor I ,but being kod by Pastor, whom Louis had blitzed certainly would have not helped the interest for a prospective crack at Joe
     
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  9. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    It shouldn’t have happened to begin with.
     
  10. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Come on, had Franklin not been black we would never blame Louis for not fighting him. Louis ducked nobody and he fought everybody that was relevant back then.
     
  11. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Toles was always around the bottom of the top ten, so there was never a very compelling case.
    Thompson was always around the middle of the table, so there was never a major issue there, but you could have justified the fight.
    Here the case is more compelling, though Bivins ranking peaked while Louis was in the army, and a shot Louis beat Bivins anyway.
    Ray deserved a title shot, but it should not have happened at the expense of Walcott.
     
  12. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Those names range from men who had a strong claim to a title shot, to men who had no claim whatsoever.

    Gains and Bobo had no case whatsoever, and Louis would have rightly been criticized for fighting them.

    Thompson or Murray would have been credible challengers, but Louis was well within his rights to pick somebody else.

    Franklin had a good claim for a title shot, but for a short window.

    Bivins had a good claim to a title shot, but while Louis was in the army, and he got screwed by the rankings being frozen.

    Ray also had a good claim to a title shot, but Walcott's was better.
     
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  13. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Considering that Louis was famous for the "bum of the month" tour, and defended against a guy who was 3-3, they all had good claims to a shot.

    Let's be real here. I am not saying this is a terrible black mark, but it absolutely is something that needs to be acknowledged and taken aboard.
     
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  14. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    When Blackburn was told the kid they were sending him was black he initially balked at the idea of training a black fighter. Eventually he saw why Louis was special and agreed.
    It was racism and the economic fallout.
    Black fighters didnt make $ generally
     
  15. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    No they really didn't.

    Despite the unfaltering name, the "bum of the month club", were all eminently qualified challengers.

    Louis was broadly speaking fighting the most qualified challengers, and taking the odd tune up fight between.

    The guys who list out, usually lost out because they were worse than the people that he defended against!
    Perhaps you have a point in some cases.

    To be honest, the biggest marks against Louis's resume, are arguably white fighters.

    Melio Bettina probably had a better case to fight Louis, than Lem Franklin did.

    Max Baer had a bit of an Indian summer, and people wer getting excited about a Louis Baer II.

    Tony Galento arguably had a good claim to a rematch, after he butchered Lou Nova, and became the top contender.
     
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