The Fury McDermott chronicles

10/10 what a breakdown

 

McDermott was a decent journeyman brawler, would probably have given early Wilder trouble.

 

Would be...if this was a Fury vs. Kiltschko thread (and if somebody wants to create a new such thread or bump an existing one to carry on any further discourse on that particular tangent, great). As far as I'm concerned this discussion has been derailed to a pretty jarring degree - and that'll need to be stopping.

 

ok but looking forward to more from that guy

 

Not really anymore, mate. I still train and keep in touch, but no real involvement in what's going on locally. Around the timeframe that St. Paul's was changing from an amateur to a pro gym, I was a fixture.

Appreciate the kind words, BTW. You are correct about Fury, he's a special one.

I don't have the dreaded COVID-19, but, aside from a gym visit and a quick shop, yep, I've been indoors for the last 48 hours – everyone in my office has been working from home since yesterday.

Much smack is talked about Tyson Fury on this forum, most rolls right on by me. Every so often, I like to select a particularly egregious post about something or other and thoroughly deconstruct it.

I don't know Tyson (only met him on one occasion), but I've followed him since his Wythenshawe days and I've been very pleased to see him realize a significant part of his potential. You could say that I care about him, and I wouldn't be offended.




I should've also noted Fury's ambidextrousness, i.e. his ability to switch hit and his capacity for aggressive shifting. Further qualities he holds over Wlad.

 

This statement is a bit graceless/ ungenerous! I'm not sure it's entirely honest, to boot. Might be an example of the 'subjective truth' that's all the rage.

You've already made it clear that you have an axe to grind with Fury, not least by very unfairly accusing a road warrior (who just defused the biggest bomb currently active in heavyweight boxing) of "cowardice". You've also already quoted inaccurate data on two occasions, either wilfully or through ignorance. Why am I going to take your claim that Fury declined credible offers for a world title shot seriously? (Emphasis on the word "credible".)

Now you're arguing that the Ali who fought Berbick, already unmistakeably plagued by the onset of Parkinson's, had more in the tank than the Wlad who fought Fury? That's not just palpably untrue, It's also somewhat disrespectful. It's widely documented that Ali was showing the signs before he even fought Holmes, let alone Berbick. Have you watched Ali's last two bouts? Have you watched Muhammad and Larry? Ali was all washed-up and then some.

Do I have to explain to you that different fighters age differently due to wear and tear along with other factors? Ali's competition is the stiffest in heavyweight history, basically a who's who of two strong eras. Plus, he was keen on focusing on the absorption of punishment in sparring, too. Of course he got worn down more quickly than Wlad.

Ali is not a good win for Berbick. Nobody thinks of Berbick as having a win over a functional Ali.

Seeing as you like polls and games of '90% say', make a poll on Berbick-Ali and see how many agree with your contention that Ali represents a credible win for Berbick.

To say nothing of the fact that Berbick's feat has absolutely nothing to do with the Fury/Klitschko discussion, much less the Fury/McDermott discussion.

Chagaev was hardly on top of the world when he fought Wlad, let's not be disingenuous.

Your arguments are confused and muddled. Why would you still be talking about Carl Thompson? You rate Chris Byrd over Tyson Fury? You are not making a tremendous deal of sense. Think it over carefully.

Have a ball and make your poll, man, I'm good. As I said a page back, I'm going to respectfully wait until both men have called time on their careers. Despite what he says about having only two fights left, I feel we may be seeing quite a bit more of Fury.

You just hold on tight to that thought, man. God bless you.

I grant you, the British establishment had done its best to bury Fury throughout the first half of 2016. But pretty much any heavyweight world championship bout involving a British fighter (never mind a fighter from just down the road in Wythenshawe) will sell out the MEN by the time fight night rolls around. If you think otherwise, you are unfamiliar with the nuances of the British mentality.

Yeah, that's it, Klitschko lost intentional.

Which explains his dismayed countenance here,
[url]https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article6922153.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Wladimir-Klitschko-vs-Tyson-Fury.jpg[/url]

here,
[url]https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article6922167.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Wladimir-Klitschko-vs-Tyson-Fury.jpg[/url]

and here.
[url]https://a.espncdn.com/photo/2015/1202/r32252_1296x729_16-9.jpg[/url]

The expression of a man who just lost intentional, for sure.

A "bit of bad luck"? That's what you call having the absolute crap knocked out of him?

Now you're boosting Tye Fields over Tyson Fury. This conversation is officially just about done. From that terrible low point, I can skip the rest and come to your closing sentiment without fear of missing anything too weighty. I can also entirely skip post #69, which I haven't yet read and shall spare myself the exercise of doing so.

It was incumbent upon me to make tonight's schooling shorter and sweeter in any case. I wish I could attribute that to a particularly merciful streak, but it’s more that I’ve got other things to do besides respond to your good self and rebutt every last confused point you make.

Don’t be so sure about your percentages. Times have changed. You’d be surprised by how many agree with me that Fury's skill level > Wlad's.

Used to be, but he grew out of it.


Meanwhile, there was this Ukrainian fellow in his 67th pro fight;

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That you need to raise the old chestnut of Fury’s 4th pro fight from 2008 vs. Lee Swaby says a lot about the strength of your position. Have a good one, playboy.

 

No more Fury vs. Klitschko talk ITT; full stop. @navigator, @Ra's Al-Ghul, @Eggman - any of you is free to start a new thread on that subject (or bump any of the many existing ones centered around their fight, or around either fighter individually).

Unsung guys like John McDermott get little appreciation enough as it stands, without the insult of a thread which ought to be ostensibly 50% about him being co-opted by discussion of his opponent's later match-up with a far more famous heavyweight.

Thank you.

 

Check my post. I curtailed the discussion (at least for my part in it), as much because Ra's Al-Ghul's points were becoming increasingly confused as anything else.


With that said, a good thread can bear digressions, can go on for many pages and endure several detours therein, always coming back to its central talking point in due course. I would guess that the forum only has so much to say for now about the matter of McDermott arguably doing enough to earn the W against a seven-fight version of Fury. Nobody is disrespecting John, and anybody who wants to revive the Fury-McDermott discussion is still free to do so.

Should add, Fury-McDermott was at least a factor in the Fury/Klitschko discussion, anyway, in so much as Fury's experience level at the time of facing McDermott was being misrepresented by one of the correspondents.

 

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Shifts as he lands a clean right cross off the 1-2, which cuts off Wilder's escape route to his left, sneaks in a right hook to the body from the unorthodox stance then loops the left around Wilder's guard, shifting back to an orthodox position as he does. You can practice the 1-2 to utter perfection on the pads, you can have a great S&C regime, tons of compartmentalized sports science, but it won't get you that. That's an intuitive thing that is developed through lots of sparring. Fury loves to contradict himself, but I've no reason to distrust his word on the days when he says that he loves fighting – you can tell that he's accumulated many more unpaid rounds than the average number a boxer racks up in the course of a pro career.

Just a little sidenote – my idiocy regarding Fury serves me well;
[url]https://i.postimg.cc/HWrmnzd0/hahahaha.png[/url]



On the J. McD front, some interesting footage of him preparing for Danny Williams a year or so prior to meeting Fury;

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Didn't remember that McDermott iFL interview having been posted already on page 1, thought I'd only seen it in the British forum. Replaced it with some McDermott training footage from about a year prior to facing Fury.


Just went back and scored this fight for the hell of it. Better to have a scorecard/breakdown to support a point.

R1 Fury 10-9 McDermott
R2 Fury 10-9 McDermott
R3 Fury 10-9 McDermott
R4 Fury 9-10 McDermott
R5 Fury 9-10 McDermott
R6 Fury 9-10 McDermott
R7 Fury 9-10 McDermott
R8 Fury 9-10 McDermott
R9 Fury 10-9 McDermott
R10 Fury 10-9 McDermott

Fury 95-95 McDermott


It's the classic gut check for a touted prospect, but coming in the novice phase of a pro career, on account of a big early step up by a young kid with modest amateur experience, yet to develop his man strength and yet to see the 5th round of a fight. Fury could have trod water and fought a few more flabby Latvians, but he took on a recent British title challenger on his turf and learned some things instead. Nobody can fairly say that he didn't handle the duress well overall.

McDermott showed industry, some nous and plenty of heart, but it wasn't enough of a performance for anyone to claim categorical victory on his behalf. Three of his rounds were really good rounds, namely 4, 5 and 8. He won them big (or pretty big), looked really authoritative in them. Makes sense, he was a mature man and fighter and a capable operator. Fury doesn't have those kind of rounds in the fight, even though I found all the rounds easy enough to score, and I think that's an influential factor on the reputation of this bout, aside from 'underdog turns up' syndrome and the negative feelings many had (and some still have) about Fury.


To break it down;

Sessions 1, 2 and 3 provide resistance to test Fury, but he gets more of note done than his stocky rival, plenty of good work that some will elect to ignore, including bodypunching and good digs on the inside. He nullifies McDermott's bustle for the most part, looks in control. Sky's commentary is poor – if Watt isn't distractedly blathering about how deficient Fury is while the latter is actually doing work, he's crediting McDermott for something that didn't land (0:19 remaining in the 3rd is but one example). Not to say that McDermott isn't having some moments in these early sessions, but rather that Watt has his knife sharpened for Tyson from the early going for whatever reason.

McDermott's pressure really tells from the 4th onward, as Fury perceptibly sags against the pace and it becomes less of a test and more of a trial of discomfort for him. McDermott's jab has its best showing in the 5th, with Fury working more than he did in the 4th and having his moments but overall less effectual than in the earlier rounds, with McDermott giving a clear impression of authority by this point. Similar story in the 6th, though to a little lesser degree, Fury still showing plenty enough signs of life but McDermott with the edge in authority. (Watt oddly chooses this moment to buck his trend and praise Fury while suggesting a deterioration in McDermott – it's still better than listening to Matthew Macklin, I suppose.)

Spirited 7th from Fury to spite his mid-rounds dip, highlighting his innate affinity for a donnybrook, but John McDermott's work is just the better of a very competitive session as he retains his edge in the generalship. The 8th is an excellent round for the Essex man, his best yet, but Tyson abides. First minute of the 9th is good for McDermott, but Fury reverses the tide in the second minute as John now seems to be wilting some from his exertions – the referee breaks to fix tape, McDermott comes back a bit fresher for the final minute of the round, Fury eats a good right up top as he whales away at the body of McDermott, but lands his own right and clearly sickens his man as the clock moves into the last 20 seconds, swinging the session in his favor.

Fury gives a weary McDermott the business for most of the 10th, now looking the fresher. McDermott rallies somewhat inside the last minute, landing a nice jab which snaps Fury's head back, giving the impression of a connection on the follow-up right which actually whistles right by the face of the Wythenshawe giant, and getting home a couple of solid rights in the last 20 seconds, but too little and too late to swing a round that has been largely controlled by Fury.


Fat Terry's 98-92 scorecard is abysmal, for which the only vague excuse is that he was doing two jobs, but McDermott isn't any hands down deserving winner of this fight. One can perhaps fairly argue that he has a slightly better case for the W than Fury, but a draw is the truest reflection of the contest. John would've ended up winning it for me if he'd had a better final minute of a competitive 9th, but Tyson found what he needed to swing that one his way with a little harbinger of what would happen to McDermott in the rematch.

He had a trying spell, but young Fury (not [url]Young Fury[/url]) dug deep and ultimately gave as good as he got, salvaging something from a situation that would have waylaid a less authentic talent. And he immediately committed himself to a rematch in the post-fight proceedings, pledging to stop McDermott in a return bout and keeping his word within a year. Nothing to dislike there.


First thing that struck me upon revisiting the fight is how glaringly evident Fury's talent is from the bout's opening moments, handspeed and litheness uncommon for a man of such size. It's amazing that he could be dismissed as a no-hoper by so many fight fans and for so long.

 

I agree that Big Mac won the first fight. Fury was shockingly bad back then. I couldn't think for the life of me why Channel 5/whoever else had thrown their lot in with him.

Fury changed tracks big time after the Cunningham fight and before Chisora 2.

He decided that he'd start to use his size, reflexes and yes - ability - to avoid getting hit rather than just clowning around the ring and walking onto shots, which had been his MO for his whole career up to that point.

I'm not going to be one of these people who claims I knew how good Fury would end up. I thought he was gash up until 2014 - absolutely shocking - and I was convinced he'd get pummelled by a then fitter Chisora in the rematch … but Fury had completely changed his approach by then. He looked fitter, stronger, displayed high concentration and was actively thinking about his opponent's approach.

He shut out Del Boy completely, making him quit. Did the same to Christian Hammer a few months later (sure these 2 aren't elite but they're tough and making them quit on their seats is no joke) then came Wlad.

Fury is, was, and always will be an enigma. Even now, put him in front of a cab driver and he'll likely fight one himself. But the last 5 years has also proven that if you put him in front of an army, he'll somehow manage to match their output too.

 

Do you happen to have a scorecard? Just out of interest.

That he handled the step up and its accompanying demands as well as he did (and then sparked McDermott in the rematch) suggests otherwise. He was a seven-fight greenhorn, barely out of his teens with a relatively inauspicious amateur background. John was a fully matured man with considerable experience of the pro game. What should Tyson have performed like, given the circumstances? Should he have flattened John inside 90 seconds like the vastly more experienced (decorated amateur) David Price, who carried greater one-punch power and was smack dab in his prime? What did that do for Price, btw, who tasted not one lick of adversity in his first fifteen bouts to prepare him for the test of Tony Thompson?

Tyson wasn't shockingly bad at all. He looked as a novice pro with modest amateur experience and bags of talent might be expected to. And he passed the gut check.

I'm going to ask a question, and I would appreciate it if you would confirm or deny with utmost honesty – were you one of those who believed David Price would defeat Tyson Fury circa 2012?

Because he was a talented young fighter with charisma.

Unlucky, friend.

I'm going to be one of those people. And what's more, I can produce witnesses.

Quoth a Florida native;

Here, I made this for you;
[url]https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/the-fury-vs-k2-debate-thread-being-for-the-benefit-of-k2-fans-who-are-still-angry-at-tyson-fury.646177/[/url]

 

byrd has achieved more than fury? How?

I respect Byrd as he was undersized and done well to get the IBF but.....na.

he did take vitalis 0, which is an excellent win, but furys win over wlad ranks better. So does furys over wilder.

 

Idc whether it does or doesn't; that is preferable to McDermott being disrespected by having fights that have nothing to do with him end up taking over the majority of posts in a thread whose title bears his name. @navigator said threads often undergo tangential derailments and that is true - but this is getting a bit out-of-hand (you can't have it be called "the Fury vs. McDermott Chronicles" and then have several pages about Klitschko with Big John barely getting mentioned; that's absurd), which is why I think he acquiesced to my request and graciously fired up a dedicated Fury vs. Klitschko thread.

...and that is where all subsequent replies in the Fury vs. Klitschko debate should be deposited.

Who cares? The rest of Fury's career and the rest of McDermott's career are both pretty irrelevant here. This is a thread for discussing their rivalry. Fury vs. Dermott I & II. Any other fights brought up should be done so with the sole purpose of (briefly, and not at such great length that it winds up spilling into dozens of multiple-paragraph responses that veer completely away from the subject at hand) illuminating a point about either of those fights.

 

you lost me at herbie hide being a better win than wilder.

you know deep down that’s not true