Joe Louis vs David Tua

Stop provoking.
Galento was amateur level and would never face 23-0 Ruiz in the 90s.

 

Did you just write Primo could replicate that?
Are you off the meds again?

We are talking H2H before these guys slipped their prime. Of course their KO-ratio slipped. Did Baer have that ratio any time until his prime slipped? Did Tua look like total crap (as Baer) did on film? He did not. Would Baer go hurtless against Ibeabuchi and Lennox? No, he would get stopped badly! Stop comparing rubbish!
Schmeling would fight CW and would take a beating in the 90s. The Baer fight absolutely showed what some chin and 20lb weight advantage could do to a CW like him. He would definately fight CW in th 90s.

 

Men are managed much more carefully today. Hell late 70s forward men were babied through their careers. Was a different time then as far as record was concerned.

 

I completely stand by what i said. Tua's reputation TOWERS over his actual achievements.

Cherry picking stats isn't going to change my mind.

For starters the guy only had 36 fights in the 90's so i have no idea how you get "38-3" in the 90's.

Tua's first 22 fights were against corpses and then he hit a Ruiz 5 years away from winning a title. Very impressive KO in hindsight but we certainly know he can punch. Next fight is against a sub 200 pound guy (the type ya'll hate on nowadays) with the breathtaking record of 7-5-0.

Fight 31 see's him against a guy 14-14-0 who has lost his last 3 fights all by stoppage.

His 36th fight (his last of the amazing 90's ko streak) see's him against a guy 22-8-1 who has lost his last 3 fights all by stoppage.

Earnie Shavers sported an horrific KO record in his first 7 years or so as well but like Tua he had a huge array of easy beats in his numbers.

As far as never being hurt you have no idea about that unless you've seen every one of those fights.

So no, not overly impressed by those numbers particularly comparative to his reputation. As i said, power seduces us. There's been any number of immensely powerful hitters that fell way short of where people expected, or hoped for.

Hyped reputation is spot on and rest assured i don't need to parrot other posters and rest doubly assured i use my own mind. I don't need to follow the herd and in this case i'm not overly sure who the herd might be.

Again, your stats certainly don't overwhelm me. The vast majority of his 90's opponents make Joe's bum of the month tour look rather good.

 

Shavers lost two times inside his 14 first fights, one time by KO. What comp. is this?
Where are two future champions he beat, one be total demolishion? 7-3 Young at the moment? You do also know that Shavers is recognized as one of the hardest hitting fellows in HW boxing.

"I completely stand by what i said. Tua's reputation TOWERS over his actual achievements.

Cherry picking stats isn't going to change my mind."

Again, use your rational mind and stop telling me I´m cherry picking. I´m entrusted with numbers and science. Its obvious Tua never got into his weight again after the stats I chose and got past it. And that stats include his last loss!

Is Shavers going that 38-3, never hurt, 86%KO-ratio, YES OR NO!?

Thats the simply, logic question to ask for a rational evaluation of primed Tua at that time. If a fighter could more or less replicate that, you have a hit. If you don´t. the fighter would prob. never survive Ibeabuchi, nearly draw him or beat two future champions. No 86% KO-ratio anywhere in 38 wins? Then your got a high chance your fellow does not carry power to make much claims against Louis chin.

Its simple logic. Nothing written in stone, reality trickles in chances.

Accomplishments get thrown all over the place here. Tons of losses against crappy boxers get ripped off all the time, as long as the fellow got some wins over the same era guys inside the top 10. Both has to be relative.

 

How did Tua not win a title is beyond me... He's unbeatable but for some strange reasons he lost to all of the best fighters he faced...

 

Still going fulltime simpleton mode?
Tua had huge power and chin. He proved that. Beat two future champions, Rahman and others. Slugged it out with Ibeabuchi for a guiness record in a bout rarely seen before! Everyone could lose to that Lewis. And Lewis went for guys chins more often than not! Durable defensive slick guys could always beat Tua (Byrd), we´ve had that tons of time before. Tucker and Thomas would prob. UD him. BUT that was never Louis style (and durability), thats what we are talking about.

 

He had huge power and durability, nothing else. He lost to Lewis (no shame in that). He lost to Byrd (I'm sure everybody would say that Tua would crash him had they not fight), he lost to Ike (good fighter but not elite one), he should have lost to Rahman (beat him with illegal punch) and drew him another time.
Tua is perfect example of limited fighter who people call better than he really was.

 

A first punch set up the second punch in R9, that was milliseconds after the bell, he knew he needed to defend himself. Its a professional fight. It could have happened regardless of that bell. In R10 he was very shaky and ready to go. But I also think the ref should have let it go longer. Btw, Tyson did that repeadetly every fight...

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But ok. If he got power, durability and nothing else, WHO would go 38-3, 86%-KO-ratio, never hurt in there? Anything near to that is ok with good chance. Maybe any Louis guys? You can talk to me, nothing to offend.

 

Tua fought mostly terrible opposition, so I can see quite a few fighters doing similary well in Tua fights.

 

Some wrote that about Foreman prior to Frazier. Its very debatable. I say these look hell better on film than Max Baer, but ok.
A few fighters? I´m waiting pages for pages to bring a fellow up with that combination of power and durability. He got stamina, too.

 

It's true, Foreman fought mostly terrible opponents prior Frazier. The difference is that Foreman actually beat Frazier, Norton, Lyle and he also has whole 2nd career that itself is comparable to Tua's career.

I already said that Baer brothers are comparable in terms of chin+power+stamina. You disagree, which is fine but these are all opinions. Both Baers are also much bigger, taller and longer than Tua.

 

Louis beats him from pillar to post. Tua either gets outworked and stopped or his corner stops in on his stool.

 

Let's put it this way.

Galento is a lot closer to Tua, than Tua is to Louis.

That is the real gulf in quality here!