Great post with some good points. I'm sure Man Machine will give you a good comeback. I don't like nitpicking at records, but if people are going to say that Toney was drained and Hill was faded etc, then they have to be fair and note what you have above. I'm sure that Carlos would have been more than willing to have fought Roy, Toney, Nunn, Benn and Hopkins etc, had they have been in his era. But they weren't. And without wanting to disrespect his record as he fought everyone he could at the time, it doesn't impress me that much. Especially as you like you've noted, they were smaller than what he was. And again, when I watch him on film, he looks a little predictable and slow in comparison. I'm going to go and watch some more of his career. Because as it stands, it really surprises me how many people are picking him here. I would pick Roy with a lot of confidence.
I respect your opinion. But I'm just not seeing what you see. How would he eventually have caught him? I know he was immensely tough etc, but his style honestly looks a bit predictable to me. He didn't use a lot of angles, he didn't use a big array of shots, and he was slow in comparison. His resume isn't that impressive, he wouldn't have had any real physical advantages, and the stylistic match up would have favoured Roy with his great speed and his unorthadox style. I honestly can't see how he could have dealt with this level of movement: https://gfycat.com/jollysophisticatedadamsstaghornedbeetle
How does he do this when his idea of pressure is throwing a slowish jab every 5 seconds that Jones may just slip time and again? What happens if Monzon can't get his jab going? All that while Jones is throwing lightening fast combinations timed to perfection
It's hard to see the idea of Carlos losing to me to most, I'm biased cos I'm a fan of his. He's not everyone's cup of tea agreed, and Jones is a hell of a fighter. I'd probably say that Monzon beats king Kong, but it's not a easy fight granted. I've faith that he beats Jones, he'd have to be at his best. I believe Jones would find him hard to fathom in some ways, after all, Monzon didn't lose when he reached the highest level of opp. But at least your been reasonable in your post, so cheers.
Wouldn't be easy Charles, as I said above, Jones is a tough mother to beat, but he's not unbeatable imo.
Especially when your sporting this kind of chin. Just cause nobody chin checked him earlier in his career does not mean Monzon would not be able to lol. This content is protected
What comeback has he? He can't rebuttal these facts I stated. Two of Monzon's big wins that he listed were vs. older guys on the decline. I documented it for him, including their decline before and after meeting Monzon. These fights were a bit too close for Monzon, as most other ATG's would have beaten the same versions of Nino and Griffin by more significant margins. Roy Jones certainly would have. Monzon greatness lies in his consistancy not by beating the very best that 160 had to offer. He struggled vs. some lesser men, even in his prime days. Did Monzon ever beat fast handed natural middleweight? Or a natural middleweight puncher? If so who? It's not on his resume. The video of Monzon won't impress much. Full Disclosure, I don't like Roy Jones, the man. He's cruel to animals. I think he's a punk, and I think a bit racy, but in the ring, none matters. He has a special skill set.
You don't accept Tonna Mundine Bogs Valdez Benvenuti Bouttier Briscoe As fully fledged middleweights?
Roy didn't have a glass chin. He was clearly damaged goods here against Johnson. That was a head shot that didn't seem too hard. He took one from Ruiz which looked harder. Two obvious things to note: 1. Roy's knockouts were against 180 plus pound fighters at LHW. 2. Carlos would have needed the opportunity, that no other fighter was granted until Roy was 35. I just don't see how Carlos could have handled Roy's movement. What have you seen that I haven't?
I'm sure he'll come back with some points. I'm enjoying the debate. I regret losing my temper on the other one.
