Michael Spinks V James J Jeffries?

Which part of what you wrote denies that they were taller than Jeffries?

 

None I'm saying him being 1/2 inch shorterr than Everett means jack ****, and the others he was shorter than were significantly lighter than him.
If you want to include him beating up the relic of Peter Jackson to prove some point,I would refer you to Sharkey's quote."he was a physical wreck I would have been ashamed to do it."
I give him kudos for besting Armstrong because I think he was overmatched in that one. Jeffries refused to defend against a teenage Sam Mcvey despite being offered an attractive guaranteed purse,as champion,he also refused to fight Denver Ed Martin, do you think he would have gone anywhere near a 6'.2"black undefeated boxer puncher?

 

And that's ok. I respect your right to your opinion.

 

Jeffries by KO 1.

 

How anyone can watch thirty seconds of jeffries and imagine he would last a round with Spinks is beyond me. Even jack Johnson couldn’t beat anyone in the top 100 today, and he was way better than Jeffries.

 

I just said that he faced taller fighters many times. Nothing more and nothing less. You don't need to find a hole in my post, I'm not pretending anything.

We all know that Jeffries didn't want to defend title against black man. I don't see any reason why he wouldn't fight Devner Ed without title on the line though. He fought Griffin and Armstrong after all. Denver Ed was a good fighter and I'd like to see him against more top tier opponents from this era, but I don't think he would be good enough to beat Jeffries. Not durable enough and likely not consistent enough.

Teenager Sam McVey wouldn't be a good win for Jeffries. Maybe better than someone like Kennedy but still weak one. Jeffries retired before any of the black men strated to make some noise. Even Jack Johnson was far from his prime form.

Maybe had Jeffries not retired, he would have been forced to defend against Johnson or McVey by publics. This would be quite interesting then. But when he retired, neither one was good enough to demand title fight, especially Sam.

 

No, not really what you said was,
"Jeffries was usually shorter than his opponent." And this is not the case.
To clarify my post which I worded rather obscurely
Martin was the Colored Champion when Jeffries was champion his manager offered Jeffries a good purse to fight him and he refused ,ditto McVey.
McVey was 205 lbs and Jeffries admitted he would be a good physical match from him but stated he would never fight him.Neither were good enough to demand a title fight? But both had better records than Finnegan and Munroe who both received one.
Who had a better resume, black or white,than Johnson when Jeffries fought Munroe in his last defence?

 

So Jeffries faced 7 taller and 7 shorter or same height opponents. Come on, why do you have to try make me look bad?
Martin would be a good defense, but I already said that Jeffries didn't want to defend against black man.
McVey didn't really have better record than Munroe to be honest at that time. He had singature win over Denver Ed but he was 8-4 and also lost to Denver Ed around the time Jeffries fought with Munroe.

Jack Johnson was 20-3-6 before Jeffries defense against Murnoe. He was far from the man he became later. He also lost against Hart, even if decision was questionable (for me it was a robbery) that disqualified him from title fight and Jeffries retired.

 

Johnson would beat most of modern fighters with 1900s rules. Especially guys within his size.
Johnson was way better than the corpse of Jeffries that fought in 1910, but prime Jeffries is at least arguable.

 

Johnson had beaten
Childs x3
Martin
Fergusonx?
Russell
McVey x3
Klondike
Butler
Gardner
Kennedy

Is that or is it not ,a better record than Munroes?
ps McVey is believed to have had 6 more wins than are recorded.

I'm not trying to make you look bad ,I enjoy your posts ,you fight your corner very well. You believe I hate Jeffries and this colours my judgement of him.I don't hate him, I hate a certain poster who is up his rectum at every opportunity. Jeffries was a very tough man with a hefty wallop and a great chin.What he was not is a skilled boxer with clever defence ,he relied on his durability to wear down smaller, and in many cases older, inactive fighters and get the win.I think that is an unbiased opinion.

 

It is better than Munroe, I said it many times before...
Johnson proved to be a great fighter later but he wasn't there in 1904. He was one of the best challengers, but so what? It's common that champions don't give the best challengers a shot. Johnson himself knew it the best.

Jeffries fought very good fighters in his title defenses. For all your criticism of Munroe and Kennedy, he gave Sharkey, Ruhlin, Fitzsimmons, Corbett (twice) a chance. He was very active champion and he ducked nobody. Every long time champion had some softer defenses, even Louis and Ali. Besides, you know why he gave Murnoe a chance, it was personal thing.

Sorry but I'm not Mendoza, I won't argue with you endlessly for no reason. You just like to agrue against Jeffries, just like Mendoza likes trashing Jack Johnson. I have no horse in this race, I'm not emotionally attached to either of this fighter. Both were great fighters and it's a shame that they didn't fight before 1910. I wish Jeffries hadn't retired as early, he would be intersting to see on film later and he would face some younger wolves. But it didn't happen, he wanted to retire and he had rights to do so.

 

As fighters I'm not emotionally invested in either.Johnson's style bores me rigid,he is an interesting character but not fan friendly to me.I'm a Dempsey guy .
Mendoza is on ignore ,though I've been informed he still makes posts to me,which shows the level of his intellect.

 

I would like to know your pick between peak Johnson and peak Jeffries, let's say 1910 Johnson vs 1903/04 Jeffries. From stylistic standpoint it's very interesting debate, because I think that Johnson had really good style to frustrate Jeffries but James always kept coming and he was much better, bigger and stronger than someone like Hart. Let's say 25 rounds, in shorter ones I'd probably pick Johnson to outpoint Jeffries but would he be able to stay on his feet for 25 rounds? Very interesting to me.

 

I'd go for Johnson. William Brady ,Jeffries manager said Jeffries was always leery of Johnson ,and wanted "none of his game" .Stylistically I think this favours Johnson.He was very strong himself and a match for Jeffries physically.Jeffries crouch would lead him into Johnson's uppercut and inside I think Johnson would have enough strength to go with his undoubted clinching skills to shut Jeffries down.It wouldnt be any walk in the park,possibly an early FOTC but I pick Johnson by dec if a neutral referee could be found.If not we would have a Marvin Hart scenario with Jeffries being rewarded for his aggression.
Make no mistake it would not be anything like Reno in1910! Johnson would not rematch Jeffries!

 

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