Can we straight up say Usyk is the 2nd greatest Cruiserweight?

Then why on earth do you rate Harry Greb the #1 Middleweight of all time? You can count the number of times Harry Greb and a "name" opponent he faced BOTH weighed below 160 for their fight on a couple hands.

He's rated so highly by most because of all the large numbers of names he beat who weren't middleweights.

I have Holyfield at #1 for the same reason, because Holyfield was the best fighter to ever hold the cruiserweight titles. By a mile. Like Greb, the number of Hall of Famers he beat throughout his career says it all.

If Usyk loses his second heavyweight fight to Chisora and calls it a career, or if Gassiev and Brieidis don't amount to much, I think this argument is mute. Because neither Gassiev nor Briedis appears to be better than the Qawi or DeLeon who Evander faced.

We'll see.

 

Usyk's clearing out of the division is historic. One of the best in recent decades, plural. He is top two ever at CW.

But boy does that/this CW class get overrated!

 

It really does. Gassiev called off his first fight in two years against Jerry Forrest earlier this year because Gassiev didn't like the sparring he was getting to prepare.

(Rolls eyes.) Real 'all-timers' here.

 

Breidis is was better than Haye at cruiser. Gassiev is also an a+ fighter. Tell me cruisers from the past Who would beat gassiev und breidies?
Besides holyfield, there is no one

 

James Toney, Vassily Jirov. Your boys are not A+. They're good, no doubt, just not as good as they are in fantasy land.

 

Oh please. I don't even know if they'd be favorites to beat Tomasz Adamek or Guillermo Jones at cruiserweight. Guillermo Jones didn't even train for fights. He was lazy as hell. And he turned Lebedev into a golem.

Brieidis and Gassiev are fine. But on what planet is Gassiev A+? He turned down a fight with Jerry Forrest for God's sake because he needed more sparring and without it, apparently, he thought he'd lose.

What A+ fighter does that?

Cruiserweights used to be guys who topped out at cruiserweight. Now, you've got a handful of cruiserweights who fought as heavyweights as amateurs, who are too afraid to fight at heavyweight as pros, so they cut weight to be big fish in a small pond at cruiser.

There's nothing A+ about any of the guys there right now. Does Gassiev even fight anymore? When did this guy become the best ever that only hall of famers like Holyfield could possibly handle?

Especially considering Gassiev isn't even sure he can handle Jerry Forrest for ****'s sake.

Christ. This is nonsense.

 

The fact your biggest criticism is based on a fight that hasn't even happened yet should really say something.

Fine, do I have to spell it out? Harry Greb achieved the most AS A MIDDLEWEIGHT. Is that better? You knew full well what I meant.

Aye we will. I'm looking forward to it.

 

This is an outright dumb and ignorant comment. The HW limit in the amateur's is 200 lbs, It's the equivalent of cruiserweight in the pros. The super heavyweight in the amateurs is the equivalent of heavyweight in the pros. Usyk never fought as a SHW in the amateurs(he did fight SHWs in WSB, but there was no cruiserweight division in WSB at the time), Gassiev was a 17 year old kid when he turned pro, Briedis was never a high level amateur boxer and Dorticos fought at LHW in the amateur world championships.

 

I think all you guys need to come down off the ledge because this World Boxing Super Series has brainwashed you.

If they'd have put Maskaev, Chagaev, Ibragimov and Liakhovich in a tournament to crown one heavyweight champ when they all had one belt around 2006/2007, and the fights were all close and exciting ... that wouldn't have made all the participants and the winner the best heavyweights the division had ever seen.

Same with this.

Gassiev hasn't fought in two years ... and it'll likely be three if he ever gets back in the ring now that he cancelled his only fight this year and now we've got the coronavirus.

His biggest win came over Lebedev four years ago. He was afraid to get in the ring this year with Jerry Forrest without better sparring.

And I'm supposed to believe no one who ever fought at cruiserweight could possibly beat Gassiev but Usyk and Holyfield? Why? Because he was in the WBSS final?

LOL. Yeah, I'll take a pass on that.

 

All these guys fought at heavyweight as pros. Usyk first fights as a pro both in the WSB and out were at heavyweight. Briedis fought quite a bit at heavyweight, fighting guys like Danny Williams and Charr. Hell, a third of Briedis' pro fights have been at heavyweight.

They all moved down to cruiserweight because it was EASIER to win titles at Cruiserweight. The competition is easier.

That's not dumb or ignorant. It's the truth. Fighters in lower divisions have been drying out to pick up belts against lesser competition for decades. They were no differnt.

It's become PAINFULLY true not that the BEST of the cruiserweights are moving up.

In the past two years since their last cruiserweight fights in 2018, Usyk has fought only CHAZZ WITHERSPOON and Gassiev hasn't fought anyone ... and backed out of a fight with a no-hoper because he was afraid he wasn't getting the right sparring.

Way to move up and conquer the heavyweights!

I don't want to hear any crap about Haye or Adamek or Holyfield or any guys who TRULY moved up in weight and took on tough heavyweights ...

When these 'heavyweights' like Brieidis have spent years drying out to make cruiser because it's an easier road.

 

I can back him up on one point, at least. It's one heck of a stretch to categorically cite Gassiev as an A+ fighter, or even an A fighter. And I like Gassiev (or I was rather interested in his career when it seemed he still had one – I guess I'll resume that interest when he finally gets around to boxing again), but he has things still to prove with regard to the extent of his ability, at least in terms of being defined as an A fighter.

 

None of Usyk, Gassiev, Briedis or Dorticos fought at SHW in the amateurs, which is the equivalent of HW in the pros. To claim they were HWs in the ams and moved down to cruiser in the pros is a lie, It's ignorant and dumb. Usyk fought at the cruiserweight limit in the amateurs, he turned pro as a cruiser. He suffered from injuries in the last year, was ducked by Whyte, Povetkin, Parker and Takam and now he's finally getting a shot at a HW contender.

He weighed in at 206 lbs in his 2nd pro fight. We've seen MWs weigh in at 170 lbs in non title bouts, so Usyk weigh in at 206 perfectly shows that he was by all means a natural cruiserweight.

I repeat: Non of the most recent top CWs fought as a SHW in the ams, so they did not move down when they turned pro. That was your original claim, which is a flat out lie.

 

Eye test, David Haye looked to have it all. Size, speed, power.... just lacked something.

 

A welcome dose of reality in a thread full of fantastical fanboy nonsense. Bravo.

 

Oh please. THEY WERE ALL HEAVYWEIGHTS. They fought in the heavyweight division as amateurs and weighed the same as Frazier and Foreman and Holmes and all those guys did when they were amateurs.

And they - guys like Usyk and Brieidis - turned pro as heavyweights, just like Holmes and Frazier and Tyson and everyone else did.

You can go thru the history of the Olympics Games and Trials and all the guys who competed at heavyweight in amateur boxing... even light heavyweight like Ali and Holyfield, fought as heavyweights as pros.

When they created the Super Heavyweight class in the amateurs in the 1980s, the heavyweights still turned pro as heavyweights. Mercer. Tua. Chagaev. Ibragimov. Brewster.

The current crop of pro cruiserweights - Usyk, Briedis, Chakhkiev - from 2008 on are the first "collection" of amateur "heavyweights" who decided it would be easier to pick up belts if they started drying out.

Hell, Wilder was a "heavyweight' competing the same tournaments with Usyk and those guys, and Wilder turned pro as a heavyweight just like Briedis and Usyk did. But they MOVED DOWN and Wilder didn't.

Deal with it. Facts are facts. They aren't the A+ fighters. They'd rather dry out and fight smaller guys, just like every weight bully in every division below them. And they did it because it's easier to pick up belts that way.

It's why they're all still dragging their feet when faced with an actual heavyweight opponent.

I have a ton of respect for guys like Haye and Holyfield and Adamek and those guys who were light heavys (or even middleweights) as amateurs and went to cruiserweight and then up to heavyweight.

But I don't for a bunch of weight bullies who were amateur heavyweights and found it easier to win straps by drying out and rehydrating back up to 215 or 220 pounds for fight night, because the thought of fighting freaking Jerry Forrest terrifies them.