What's the best argument against FMJ being the greatest?

You're defending racial discrimation. That makes you a biggot. If you have sympathy for your brother maybe you shouldn't wish the same discrimation against another black man.

I have experieced racism that ultimately ruined my relationship with the mother of my children. It's part of the reason my chiildren don'tt have a dad anymore

 

No he didn't it was obviously a robbery for anyone of eyes. Imagine even being racist enough to believe Zivic was capable of beating Burley

 

I'm sorry to hear that. Truly I am, I'm not allowed to see my brother and I know what pain that can cause a father, I see it everyday. That said, don't go round calling people racist because they find boxers skillful when you don't. It's in VERY poor test and if a mod sees it, you'll end up banned.

 

I am certain that there are very few people on this forum, who hold any kind of racist views.

We are all about the history here.

One historian once wrote "from a historical perspective, it is not even useful, to ask whether the crusades were a good thing or a bad thing!"

I am deeply interested in the history of racial politics in boxing, but I want to understand why things happened, and what they meant!

 

LaMotta had one of the best lefts in division history. You don't know what you are talking about.

 

I googled up an interesting thread regarding Burley and his unpopularity in his home town of Pitsburgh by poster " Chuck Johston ".

Black fighters were no doubt discriminated against during that era, it is indisputable but Joe Louis, Henry Armstrong, Ray Robinson and Beau Jack were all huge draws in that era as they were exciting fighters.

In the end boxing has always been as much about entertainment as skill as far as who is a big draw.

Even someone like Floyd had to invent the " Money Mayweather " persona to break into the mainstream. I would argue Floyd was at his best as a 130-140 pound fighter but in that part of his career he wasnt a very big name as far as the general public went.

[url]https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/charley-burleys-lack-of-popularity-in-his-hometown-of-pittsburgh-during-the-early-1940s.623700/page-2[/url]

Cheers All.

 

The best argument, leaving aside the claims of other fighters, is that he was a hometown fighter. All his fights were in the US and most of them in the city and state in which he resided. Most of his big fights were on his terms to a very large extent.

 

Hi mate, in my opinion that's one of the greatest things about Ali.

He defended his title in foreign lands with foreign refs and judges.

He fought in Germany, Malaysia, Zaire, Indonesia, Ireland, Canada, Japan and England.

He was a true world champion in that regard.

To be fair to Mayweather most great champions in history did the same. Mike Tyson did go to Tokyo twice but Larry Holmes never fought out of the USA nor did Joe Louis. Wlad Klitschko doesnt get enough credit in that area as he fought all over Europe and in the USA. Tyson Fury has also fought in various different countries.

Cheers.

 

I agree Muhammad Ali was a world champion in the truest sense.

Yes there are plenty of other greats that you can make the hometown argument against and to be honest I would make that argument against the likes of Louis and Holmes too. It doesn't prevent any of them from being greats but it is a valid criticism of them. It is harder to win abroad, it is perhaps no coincidence that Robinson's first title loss happened in London. If Mayweather had fought Castillo in Mexico then maybe he wouldn't have retired undefeated.

 

Indeed mate.

 

That's why I have huge respect for someone like Usyk (not saying he's the best ever, or even close). The way he unified all the CW belts, fighting in the backyard of his opponents... very impressive, imo!

 

Not argument, just names. Sugar Ray Robinson, Roberto Duran, Henry Armstrong...I'm going to throw Muhammad Ali and Joe Louis in there, too.

That said, I think FMJ is a freaking AMAZINGLY GREAT fighter, without question top six or seven ATG pound for pound...easily.

I know I might be underinformed when it comes to Floyd, but I didn't really see the Championship Heart of an Ali, Robinson, or prime Holmes in Mayweather. He certainly had guts and courage, but I never saw it on the level of...say, Ali during the Thrilla in Manila or Holmes-Norton...Bowe-Holyfield I.

 

I love reading these.

Thanks for posting them.