Most likely To Defeat Prime Holmes? Foreman Or Frazier?

Frazier not only would beat larry holmes but would kick his ass,stylistically was a perfect victim for joe, he kicked the ass of Holmes until 1976 or so when they were sparring partners ,Frazier broked ribs to Holmes. A jab was no problem for a prime frazier,joe would avoid it with his move of head and would keep making damage to the body and then when they guy protects his body bammm left hook to the chin and down goes Holmes

 

I so want to believe that...but, I just see how Ali succumbed in that first fight. He gave a fantastic, fight in FOTC (one of his career highs imo), but Joe looked like he could have taken on ANY heavyweight that night (and beat most...if not all of them).

Larry is my favorite fighter, but FOTC is the main reason Joe is still considered by so many a top 10 ATG (and more than a few people place him above Foreman and Lewis...really).

I think Larry's jab would have made Joe's face a swollen mess, worse than the Thrilla in Manila. I think sooner of later he'd land that uppercut and Joe would hit the canvas. But I think he'd be on Larry like white on rice throughout. He wouldn't stop. A knockdown would just see him bounce back up, clapping his gloves together and hopping up and down.

I consider Larry indubitably a greater ATG than Joe...but the FOTC Joe was beyond the Tyson who devastated Berbick, beyond the all fired up Louis who trashed Schmeling in their second fight. True, most of it had to do with Joe having had ENOUGH of Ali's mouth and making it his life mission to beat him. But take that Joe, that feral machine, and put him up even against the brilliance of Holmes in that first Shavers fight...even that dancing master would lose a close but resoundingly unanimous decision.

Just my opinion.

 

I don't think Joe could knock down Holmes (Holmes' problem was keeping his left hand up, not his right. It was hard to hit him with the hook, unlike Ali). But I agree, Charlie, Joe had a way underrated defense...he definitely blocked a lot more of Ali's jabs in the FOTC than the announcers were noticing. When Joe was smoking it took a VERY keen eye to land on him. You could see Ali having to hold back and think more than once in that fight before throwing.

 

Check out the Weaver fight, compare it to Bowe's uppercut against Holy, round 10.

Yeah, Bowe-level. It was the only legitimate power punch Larry had in his arsenal. The problem is, it can be such a hard punch to land, and he probably wouldn't land it against Foreman. Against Frazier or (in his prime) against Tyson oh yeah, eventually it would land. And both of those men would go down from it. Frazier, however, would get back up to win....

 

Larry being greater than frazier is very debatable. Frazier has probably the best single win in hw history and he only lost against 2 top 10 all time great hws and joe was past his prime. And of course that Frazier could knock down Holmes,nobodies did

 

Charlie, all respect but nobody knocked down Larry Holmes with a left hook. Ever.

 

Almost forgot @Charlietf ...I love Joe Frazier myself, and I respect that you place him higher. His win against under-30 Ali was an incredible win that can't be overestimated.

Imo Joe would have beaten ANYBODY that night.

 

Because he never fought joe frazier. Ask to larry how he felt this left hook sparring with joe

 

Oh yeah, he got crushed...but look at how young he was, far from turning pro. Even Mike Tyson's hook couldn't put him down (but I have to give that to you, Joe had a significantly better hook).

I can definitely see Joe beating Larry...I just don't see Larry making it a whole fight without getting frustrated by jabbing the hell out of Joe and watching him keep coming on. It's just hard for me to see pro Holmes getting floored by the hook.

But, again, all respect Charlie, and I can understand completely where you're coming from.

 

Far from turning pro? Frazier was his sparring partner at least until 1975

 

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The ribs incident happened early in the 70s, my friend. Larry has told people for a long time that after several years of sparring with both Joe and Ali he became better.

 

1973 LARRY WAS PRO IN THIS YEAR.but frazier worked with him more times

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Thanks for a great video, Charlie.

I'm giving you respect by agreeing to disagree, I don't think Joe could have floored Larry. Joe had a really good right hand, but it wasn't a Shavers or even a sitting-into-it Ali right hand. And the right hand is what floored Larry, time and again. In his prime, Larry was great at blocking/parrying left hooks, even better at riding them out.

But as I have written many times to you concerning this subject, I completely understand and respect your points. I just feel the way I do, period.

 

Yeah i respect your opinion i am not trying to change it