Calzaghe aside- who is the GOAT at 168?

Nobody was better than a prime version of Roy Jones.

 

Brewer has an argument. Mitchell does not

 

Ward's resume at 168lbs shits all over Calzaghe's.

 

It doesn't, but I think that they were both of equal ability.

 

Ottke?

Ah well, we’re all entitled to an opinion I suppose.

He was a limited fighter, heavily protected by the most corrupt officials I’ve ever seen in any sport!

Watch the Robin Reid fight again then come back and tell me that Ottke won the fight without corrupt officials

 

I dont think there are many people that would approve of the Reid fight.
Do remember that was faded end of career Ottke and not prime Ottke.

I dont think Ottke was limited. He was very hard to beat.
His record is very impressive and he has a far greater SMW resume than most.
People forget and rewrite history, but take Froch (a fighter who I like alot and whos career I followed), when Froch had his last fight it was against a British champ. That doesnt mean it wasnt a good win but it wasnt better than many of Ottkes and I think arguably gets more credit just because it was a fight on a large scale that had the publics interest, but strip it down and it was an established champ against a British champ.
Now I think it could be argued that Froch may have some more individually impressive wins (maybe, depending how they are argued) but overall think Ottke has the greater resume.

This was just said as an example and not so much about Froch but more about fans perceptions

 

How?

Wards best win at SMW is arguably Kessler who Calzaghe had already beaten when prime and undefeated.
After that I expect Froch, who wasnt as good a win as Eubank
After that maybe Abraham which wasnt as good a SMW win as say Mitchell
Then I expect Bika that Calzaghe had already beaten.

Throw in the rest of Calzaghes SMW resume of world class fighters who were, had been or became SMW champs in some form in Brewer, Reid, Lacy, Woodhall, Veit.
Consider that for Froch to get the fight with Ward, he had to face faded Johnson, who he beat by Mdec, when years previously, Sheika had to beat Johnson to get the Calzaghe fight. That gives you an idea right there. Then throw in the other decent SMWs in Mkertchyan, Starie etc.
Calzaghes resume is far greater.
He has 2 wins that are instantly greater than any of Wards SMW wins in Eubank and undefeated Kessler

 

When Griffin fought Toney, Toney was coming off a loss and was not overly impressive at LHW. Other than that, what were Griffins other wins at that time?
So what if Griffin had a unique style??? He was a small LHW that other LHWs that gave Jones problems, also managed to beat him in Tarver and Johnson. Michalczewski who was a slow starter won in 4 rounds against Griffin.
It was noted at the beginning of the fight by the commentary that Jones had problems with a jab and this is not noted by you.
Now I agree Griffin was a good fighter but I agree that I think Calzaghe would have looked more impressive

 

It's hard to argue Roy as the best 168 on the one hand, because it wasn't his defining division, he was only there a couple years and a few mostly dismissible fights. With that said, you can make an argument for his victory over Toney being the single most creditable win in the history of the division – put that with whatever your estimation of his overall ability might be (and it would have to be high, realistically) and you could make a decent outlier case.


More plausibly, though, it's Calzaghe and Ward, in whatever order you fancy (can make a case either way).

Roy gets the plaudit of most gifted man who ever passed through the division. His boxing was badly exposed when the gifts began to wither, but they would've constituted a tough puzzle for anyone in history when they were in full bloom.

 

Reid beat Calzaghe twice as clearly as Collins beat Eubank in the first fight (well, he didn't beat Eubank, realistically).

Calzaghe beat Kessler more convincingly than Ward did.

Toney was a shell of himself from the weight-making vs Jones Jr. Making Benn over McClellan possibly the best win, or more likely Eubank over Watson or Rocchi.

Some food for thought.

 

Also Nigel was clearly a shell of himself post-McClellan....

 

Never had Rob beating Joe, myself. Always thought that one was a bit trumped-up as a gift/robbery, though I'd be willing to revisit it and see what I think 10 years on from last viewing it.

I do disagree on Calzaghe beating Kessler more convincingly than Andre. Thought both men beat him quite handily, just differently. Never bought into all the griping about rough stuff; its a big boy's sport and Kessler was a seasoned professional, he should have had an answer for Ward's physicality, been more willing to give some of it back (as Joe would have been inclined to). I appreciate Kessler's nature outside the ring, lovely guy, real gentleman, but he could be a bit too clean and oddly naive in the ring at times.

Benn-McClellan and Eubank-Watson II are good shouts for greatest victories at the weight.

 

Might revisit the fights actually.

I know Eubank says the decision going against him against Steve was a sort of Karma for himself getting the decision over Dan Schommer.

 

Don't forget Peter Fredo too.