Froch would've beaten Golovkin, right?

I gather that @Bustajay was messing around (he may clarify). It's nigh on impossible to defend a claim that Ward took Froch's soul/confidence, when he came out 6 months after the defeat in Atlantic City and utterly destroyed a guy who was supposed to brutally retire him. Froch's career skyrocketed after Ward.

Did he blow off a Ward rematch? Probably. Let's say he didn't exactly go out of his way to make it happen. His soul or confidence were certainly not impacted by that defeat, though, generally speaking.

 

Froch would always have rationalized that Ward was just an ugly, boring style that there wasn't much point tangling with beyond the Super Six final. His ego isn't that destructible.

The sports shrink he hired for Groves II was a matter of him realizing just how much he'd bought into George's psyche in the build-up to the first fight, even while overlooking him as a force. He didn't take a shellacking from George due to lack of confidence. If anything, he was overconfident, while too easily irritated at the same time. He didn't gameplan diligently, he just wanted to get the snotty little ginger kid out of the way ASAP.

 

Not sure that shoe fits, tbh. I'm sure most of the bitterly partisan Canelo apologists consider me a "Golovkin supporter" on account of my having scored both contests in favor of the Kazakh over the Mexican - but there honestly isn't any emotional baggage or barrier to keeping objective for me in discussing GGG. Wouldn't even say my opinion toward him is any more positive (nor less, about the same) than is mine towards Froch.

...well, I don't trade in that sort of disingenuous subterfuge, and wouldn't even if Golovkin were among my favorites. In fact, it has always been my assertion that GGG is conclusively not a small middleweight (2nd post, 4th overall bullet point) - in much the same respect that Holyfield isn't a small heavy ...as in, there have been men that outsize him, but they are outliers.

Again, my wont has never been rhetorical sleight of hand nor desperate excuse-making. I have always called out fighters, even those of whom I've long been a fan (ie Miguel Cotto) for diva-like antics, such as requesting catch-weights...and GGG is no exception. He definitely became more and more of an entitled diva over the years, as fame got to Gennady's head.

As for not fighting at 168, that was never an imperative for me. If we're not going to harp on Hagler for staying at middle (and I don't), then why put that burdensome onus now on a lesser great (and certainly no larger-framed a competitor, as established; he's a dead-eye spot-on middleweight thru & thru) in Golovkin? I always felt he scratch out respectable legacy right where he was at 160 (although I will own that I was incorrect about Canelo getting blown out... which leads me to...)

Competitive nature of those battles with Canelo? Well, he won both rather clearly IMO - but yes, they were more competitive than some of us expected. That requires no further embellishment or excuse-making, however, than simply pointing to Golovkin being near his prime's conclusion while Canelo was just coming into his own. That's really all there is to it. No call to get into the weeds regarding matters of size that don't really factor in.

Exactly, we're in agreement.

(although I always did feel super middle would prove the hard ceiling for him, as the mooted jump to light heavy to face Kovalev always struck me as disastrously over-ambitious)

True. Golovkin probably brawnier in the upper half, if we had to choose - but yes, same ballpark.

Absolutely, we're in agreement once more - but Carl himself brought that reductive sound-byte publicly into the arena of discussion...and thus left himself open to critique.

He did get all he could handle, but a) Ouma was an underrated (if undersized at middle) and plucky warrior and b) there are - still as of today (and probably forevermore) unsubstantiated, but persistent - rumors of mitigating factors in that fight; ie Golovkin having complications from a chronic back injury, jet-lag and/or the flu. Sour grapes? Perhaps, but these whispers started long before GGG was an international star with legions rallying to defend his good name at whatever cost. Where there's smoke..

Fair - and stylistically, yes, Taylor's brand of movement (colored by American style quickness and slickness) was more the bespoke foil to Froch throughout his career (see: the Dirrell and Ward fights) than what GGG brings to supper. It has long been asserted, however, that Jermain's chin was never the same after Pavlik I. That chin (along with his notoriously unreliable gas tank) failed him with fourteen seconds on the clock versus Froch. Give him a slightly better chin and/or gas tank (infinitesimally so; by a fraction of a percent) to allow him a reprieve for those fourteen seconds, and the Cobra has taken an L.

Hadn't quite narrowed that much, IMO, to say that a decision was still up for grabs. Froch at the very least needed multiple knockdowns, for me. Time had run out unless he got exactly the KO he did.

Froch made a reductive quip about his size and strength being the be-all end-all; I gave a no less reductive answer citing a fight of his with another (far more fragile, if not also marginally smaller physically) ex-middleweight champ.

 

I was straight up trolling as we all know I’m crazy

 

I like Golovkin in this. Froch is a little bigger but Golovkin is so much more skilled. Both are Sherman tanks so if this goes to the cards I see Golovkin winning.

 

Ya know, it's interesting that people want to pounce on Golovkin's recent performances that are relatively speaking, lackluster in comparison to his younger form.

But that's normal in boxing. When Froch was Golovkin's age he looked bad. He was going life and death with George Groves. A prime Golovkin doesn't even need to get out of 2nd gear to handle Groves. But I doubt a prime Froch would have either. Well he might need one gear higher. Because GGG is H2H a better fighter and p4p speaking solidly superior.

Prime or Prime GGG is too skilled for Froch. Yes, he's quite a bit smaller, but not like some insurmountable size difference.

 

Joshua’s resume takes a huge dump over GGGs from a tremendous height. This kind of delusion can only be the product of extreme mental illness. Please seek help.

 

Prime Groves would spark GGG cold

 

In my humble opinion, the Froch that brawled with Pascal was at the peak of his physical powers and would have been a real handful for any version of GGG. The Froch who destroyed Bute was at his absolute mental peak and had a 'no ****ers beating me in my home town' kind of attitude, would have took everything GGG had and just dished out that little bit more.

GGG has looked invincible against B--C level fighters, past prime, undersized, fringe world level and ill disciplined titleists. Against the best of the MW division, he's struggled and in some instances badly. There's not even any evidence to suggest he's a good fit for SMW as he's average size for middleweight, whereas Froch is a natural, big SMW who had a level of fitness and in camp discipline that few could match.

He used to cycle 20-30 miles on a road bike with 1 gear FFS! Always lived the life and when he fealt his career was on the line, fought like a man possessed. I've never really seen that from GGG.

 

No way was Froch prime when he fought Groves, he was winding down his career, in his mid to late 30's and had been in some absolute wars and had a tough career and pretty gruelling schedule. The Froch that fought Pascal would have smashed Groves to bits in my opinion.

 

Quality post, Tank.

 

Thanks man, just my opinion of course but I followed both fighters careers closely and Froch was my favourite fighter while he was active so I may be biased. It's just that barring the Ward fight in which I don't really think Froch was mentally switched on to not losing that fight, he always showed just that little bit too much dog in him to ever be written off against anyone at Super Middleweight.

 

Froch prime would've beaten GGG of the last 3-4 yrs imo, before that im seeing a very hard fought ud for GGG as Froch was the bigger guy and tough as **** with it, he aint getting stopped

 

Agree wholeheartedly, Froch is 21st century boxing's quintessential ironman. Was always a huge favorite of mine, too, one of the most thrilling careers that I've been lucky enough to follow contemporaneously. And I saw my current favorite debut as a pro on Carl's undercard, some kind of serendipity.

 

theres a little story that GGG's left hook to the body broke Georges ribs in sparring and they flew him home, its well known to be fact