hrgovic is 27, fought nobody, he won’t even have a sniff of a title shot until he’s at least 30/31, if he gets one at all. Even more so now this virus is holding up all the mandos, rematches and unifications the next pulev imo
Prior to beating Wladimir Klitschko Tyson Fury hadn't beaten anyone beyond the journeyman gatekeeper level. Clearly who someone has beaten is not a really good barometer of how good they are.
he had beaten world title challenger chisora twice easily. euro level hammer cruiser champ USS World title challenger Kevin Johnson
In a couple of years, when they are more established. But right now, this year, Fury should fight Joshua.
Well, that's what we all want to see. Nobody can reasonably doubt Tyson Fury's willingness to step up. Eddie has to risk his golden goose and stop negotiating him out of these fights. It would be nice if he didn't try to put it in Saudi Arabia, also, though I'm sure Fury would be willing to fight there. Do you think Dubois and Hrgovic wanted that fight any time within the last couple years? My guess is they'd sooner have elected to keep developing as professionals. Neither has the professional credentials for the fight, nor the kind of profile which creates demand. At this time. Beating Ortiz is a darn sight more noteworthy than beating Molina or Gorman. Let's be reasonable. Neither Dubois nor Hrgovic has been a viable candidate.
The only top fighters AJ beat in their primes are Parker and Whyte. Wlad, Povetkin, and Takam were old. Wlad had also already lost to Fury by the time AJ fought him and he still almost got KO'ed. AJ should have noted the obvious advantages he had over Ruiz kept him at a distance in the first match. Fury beats AJ when they fight.
In reality, I think you are correct. However, he is a beltholder with nine defenses, and legions of ******ed fans that think he is the hardest puncher ever. These are the kinds of guys you have to beat to own an era. It just is.
Hey, not just his fans. I've seen that stated by a number of industry guys, fighters, trainers, etc. Not to say that makes it true, of course.
Normally you might expect further improvement with more and more fights but Hrgovic may be a special case due to his extensive amateur experience. I don't think it would have been wise to put him in with Joshua in 2017 or 2018 but I think he is a viable candidate right now if they can find some way to stage a fight around the coronavirus pandemic. He seems like a more intriguing matchup than Kubrat Pulev for sure.
Pray for salvation and to keep from going to hell,- Prayer has a greater purpose. & as you stated he is the champeen of: Did I state they were more than that? If, so please copy so I can recant, if not then you are arguing against yourself, not me. and how many is that? And does that quantity outdo quality? Again he is the HW champ of what kind of an era? According to you see below- So according to you Fury is the King of a division of Contenders. To which is why you limited names here, choosing to use (contender chief contender or that champ for 6/9 years) I would do the same if I was defending this argument, no since in naming names. They as U state are all contenders. Did you read where I said he was not the best in this (current) division? No, you didn't. I wrote: He's one of the 2 best of this era, nothing more. That is your choice to make him better than AJ. The 2 haven't fought. Here is how you described Wilder: Here is how I described Wilder: We'd have to raise Wilder to a credible champ in order to think the Lineal was defended against a worthy competitor. So I am wrong for saying competitor while you are right for saying contender, gotcha! That's How I see it. Somehow Lineal is supposed to mean more than any other belt. I don't side one way or the other, rather try be objective. If Lineal is so much more, than what I wonder what is Fury's purpose fighting for any other belt. And those who give an impassioned defense of Lineal- should in no way be found on another thread defending someone with a IBF,WBA,WBC,IBO,IBA,Ring, WBO. I guess that is why I so loved the introduction of Mike Tyson. Not Tyson Fury, though he is a nifty fighter. Unlike Mike -- He went after them all so dumb boxing fans like me can say- I might not know how valuable the Lineal title is...But I knew how to define a division that's been cleaned out. It's a nice accomplishment to which I give credit, but am skeptical of all who write it- Not you cause I don't know your opinion on the 2 he beat. In other words I take issue with fans that will call Kilitchko every derogatory name on how boring he was, fought in a weak era,- double down & say Wilder is the worst boxing hype who fought the weakest opposition ever...Then they turn around and use these 2 in order to justify Fury's resume. IMO that is hypocrisy. Again I quoted you- because I agree...solid when a person didnt lose a belt in the ring. Nonetheless he did lose it-unlike an Ali who lost it by standing for something-outside of boxing. Demanding we include his personal demons and fights outside the ring as an extra accomplishment. As if he is the 1st to encounter depression & drugs...and beat both. Have U ever seen some who uplift Klitschko & Wilder in order to justify Fury's 32 fight history? I have and that is my skepticism lies at- fans who straddle both sides of the fence/argument aka "Ya know Fury beat the 2 best....even though they aint worth a gosh darn!
If that works as ointment to your frustrations over Fury's success, you better keep rubbing it in. Most everybody else with a serious interest in the sport recognizes Fury as lineal, however. That remark addressed the thread in general (there are guys who seem to think that there is more than one guy with a credible claim to the title of division's champeen), not you specifically. I'll make it simple. You stated "What good does it do to have the lineal or ABC -with a resume of 32 fights?", as if only having 32 bouts precludes championship status. Which, of course, it doesn't. He's the best until AJ proves otherwise. The onus is on AJ, Fury's the champeen. Wilder doesn't have to have been the champ to make a worthy challenger. Was Bob Pastor not a worthy challenger to Louis? Now, I grant you, Pastor was a better technical guy than Wilder, but he'd never been the HW champ. These parts weren't addressed to me, but I'll comment; He's not fighting for other belts. He's fighting the top contenders. He even told Wilder he could keep his green belt. Fury didn't want the belt so much as he wanted what Wilder represented, the scalp of one of the perceived biggest threats to his status as world's champ. My man, all the belts that aren't with Fury were with him 4 years ago. And, I gotta remind you, he never lost them in the ring. He'll take those trinkets back as soon as Eddie lets his golden goose in there with the economic threat. Myself, I've always given Wilder his due credit. Wlad, too, for that matter. Doesn't mean I can't be critical of them, as a critically-minded fan of the fights and fighters. I like to think I'm generally fair-minded. Ali lost it because he was terrified of Elijah. The conscientious objector stuff is nice storytime. We don't know how much of a conscientious objector Ali might have been without the influence of Elijah bearing down on him and threatening his loved ones. Ali wished he'd stood by Malcolm years later for a reason. He just didn't have the nerve to do it at the time. And I am a pretty big Ali aficionado, in saying that about the man. But critically-minded, as I said.
ok gotcha! my bad in theory yes. technically speaking it's a new norm. ATG' before this era usually had more than 30 fights. In an instance like Andre Ward, I would then place Fury with him- if/when he beats AJ- So I can say quality over quantity, until then 32 fights with a lineal that he kept while doing drugs isn't my kind of title. And beating Wilder I give credit cause I love Wilder's power. It's those who down Wilder, not sure if U did before hand.. Wilder cant be a bad champ and a good notch on the resume at the same time is my point. In your opinion, others too! I think this is the part where we are addressing each other in general but overall the board and fans who come to such a conclusion? When I saw worthy, I am speaking of- according this board's consensus. Was he worthy? Not here he wasn't. TO me he was/is.
I don't think Wilder is a champ period, because he's never been. Might well have been if Fury wasn't around. Instead, he's been a top contender, a threat to Fury's crown, a monstrous punching force, and Fury despatched him (although he's obliged to do it yet again, after beating him two different ways already). Guys just don't fight as much as they used to. Gary Russell Jr fights once a year, and he's never done anything remotely as impressive as Fury has. Doing drugs? Plenty of guys have done recreational drugs while boxing and being great at it. Whitaker went in hard. If you're talking about PEDs, I already addressed that, don't need to repost it. Being a fair guy, though, I never slam any of these guys who popped, even if I don't much care for them (see Dillian Whyte), because I realise that it's rife in sports in general and that testing negative doesn't necessarily mean you're clean. I don't put down Wilder. There are plenty who don't put him down, even if they may not appear on this forum all that much. The best is the champeen, man! Until the #1 contender proves otherwise. That's AJ, bring him on.
