Why did Sonny Liston/his team attempt to cheat Vs a 7-1 underdog and then quit?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Contro, Apr 17, 2020.


  1. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Surely the substance on the gloves would have to have been prepared in advance? If he tried this against a huge underdog did he try it before? Is this a stain on his legacy?

    Also why did he quit so early as a DEFENDING CHAMPION and certified boogeyman in a fight that was still competitive right after a failed attempt at cheating? What does that say about his heart and self belief?
     
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  2. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    This happened way before my time I'm just wondering why Liston is still regarded as a boogeyman to this time when the Ali fights, in my opinion completely destroy the idea that he would for example intimidate a Tyson or Foreman into submission when he himself was seemingly exposed as a spineless bully in these 2 fights.

    Obviously Liston was a highly dangerous puncher, technically sound and physically strong but even his chin doesn't look that great, Ali hurt him badly several times he looks less sturdy than Frazier, foreman and Norton looked against ali
     
  3. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Now Deceased 2/4/25 Full Member

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    Sonny Liston was indeed a very intimidating man, he collected debts for the underworld, he once beat up a policeman in an alley in 1957, put the officer upside down in a garbage can. Sonny used to beat up fellow inmates in the prison yard. He was also handled by the underworld. He used to stuff towels underneath his robe before many of his bouts, he stood 6"1, weighed 218 lbs. He would give his opponents a very homicidal looking stare, many were beat before the bell rang. At the weigh in for the first Cassius Clay fight on the morning of Feb 25 1964, Clay went berserk, it freaked Sonny out, tough guys are scared of guys that are mentally unstable, because they are unpredictable. Clay, later to be known as Muhammad Ali, was not intimidated. The fight public at that time, had never seen a fighter with Ali's skills, most heavyweights were flat footed and they were plodders, Ali glided around the ring in those days, plus Ali got into Liston's head, something that no one had achieved up to that point. Sonny could not catch Ali and was getting beat, so between the 4th and 5th round it has been said that cutman Joe Polino put a Liniment on Liston's gloves thus blinding Ali. Ali wanted to quit because he could not see. Sonny began to unload on Ali, after Angelo pushed Ali into the ring, telling Ali, Run. Ali's eyes cleared starting round 6, he then started to take an exhausted Liston apart. Sonny Liston sat on his stool when the bell rang for round 7, he quit. Ali or Cassius Clay was the new World Heavyweight Champion.
     
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  4. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Did Eddie Machen complain of this in his fight against Liston?
     
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  5. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Now Deceased 2/4/25 Full Member

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    I do know he went 12 rounds with Sonny Liston on Sept 7 1960, but Sonny won by unanimous decision.
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Never been proven.
     
  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    This is all supposition of course, but he seems to have had an injury going into the fight.

    That would tie together all the pieces of this narrative.
     
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  8. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Feel like the problem w Liston and the Ali fights is Liston won the belt already...once he won and had money I’m not so sure the desire was there anymore. From what I’ve read he wasn’t as hungry, didn’t train as hard. Heard he really trained hard for the second bout but when it got postponed lost interest and went on a binge or something. I don’t think it’s fair to assume he would quit in prime...no evidence of that really. As far as the gloves go trainers are sneaky and look for any edge they can. Wouldn’t be surprised if his corner had done it previously.
     
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  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Seven different doctors attested to the separation in his shoulder being serious enough to have impaired his ability to defend himself.

    The substance on his gloves could have been deliberate or it could have been an accident.

    As always with the heavies, many people make just whatever they want out of key fights.
     
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  10. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Because Sonny found out before the fight he was Clays real father.
     
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  11. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    :lol: Now it all makes sense.
     
  12. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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  13. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yes.
     
  14. RockyJim

    RockyJim Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Lacking in the "heart" department!
     
  15. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    But fought 6 or so rounds till the final bell with a broken jaw against Marty Marshall.

    Gotcha.