What did Frazier do to be called "Uncle Tom" by Ali?

I know that and it was terrible. Doesn't change the fact that some people fared better in these times than Ali. Not everyone who faced segregation and racism became a racist ******* on his own.

 

As it's so, taking it for what it is - Ali wouldn't be the first or last person to have end-of-life regrets and wishing he'd done things different. If he'd offered an apology based on the merits of nothing more than realization that he'd made mistakes and hurt someone along the line, he'd have much company. He screwed up for bad reasons, few of us have done any better. Joe's last words here - "Life's too short" - ring loud. Forgive and move on - if not for the next life, only for the one we have today.

 

Really good post, money is important, a necessity, but how you live your life is more important.

 

Pure BS on your part

 

Ali wiped Malcolm X like a dirty arse when Malcolm was booted and ostracised from the NoI. They went from close to Ali denouncing him at the the behest of Elijah Muhammad following Malcolm and Elijahs feud. Ali wasn’t getting steered away from **** by Malcolm X at that point. He was a total NoI puppet at that stage.

 

It makes you wonder what would have happened if Muhammad Ali would have taken the step to be inducted into the U. S. Army, what would have happened to him, would this interfere with the teachings of his faith, How would Elijah Muhammad would have reacted to this? It could have prolonged Ali's peak years, and allowed him to defend his title.

 

Joe Frazier was a very good man and so was Ali.....regardless of everything that went on between them during their careers....who can ever forget joe defending a defenceless Parkinson ravaged Ali from that sewer rat phil donahue on live tv ?

I think at that point 1989/90....Ali wasnt relatively speaking really doing hugely better than frazier financially in the summer of their post fight retirement....i think Ali"s "brand and financial success was reborn....as the mass market video game and internet era started in 1993-4...suddenly Ali has a videogame on the megadrive....the internet is opening his brand up to the world....the 1996 olympic torch lighting...reallygave the Ali estate and intellectual property a second life......and from that point joe got left waaay behind...and thats why it appeared he was bitter in front of a camera in later life...i think joe was very hard done by...he is as tough and decent a man who ever stepped in the ring...he was a olympic gold medalist...he was exciting and charismatic in the ring....and cmon it was a very narrow gap between them over 41 rounds.....joes right to think why he was neglected and branding denied him...plus the whole rocky statue and rocky-philly thing...stallone ripping off some of joes moves like running the statue...pounding meat....theree being a,statue of rocky and not joe..all were injustices that hurt this proud warrior

Its al done now God rest both their souls in peace...its a very sad thought...these 2 men lived and now their dead

 

Ali is one of the best talkers of all time. Basically seeded the world for the rise of rap.

 

They should of placed a statue of Joe, he was real.

 

Yes Ali was adored by white people in the media during his Vietnam protest. What planet are you from again?

 

Calling Patterson an Uncle Tom was equally low class in my opinion. Patterson marched in Alabama for civil rights not long before Ali went on a college speaking tour which saw him calling any non muslim black n——rs, calling black women who dated or married white men “whores” and railed against homosexuality freely calling them “f—-ts” so Patterson, who was accepting of all and beloved by most was an “uncle tom” in Alis eyes and Frazier who said he was EVERYONES champion not just the champion of the black muslims was an “uncle tom” in Alis eyes... I think Ill throw my admiration toward those guys stance before I will Ali.

 

Depends on the white people.

 

Joe was genuine Deep South dirt poor. His family really were sharecroppers. He moved to Philly aged 15 or 16 to escape the grinding poverty of the South.
Ali was black middle class in Kentucky. His Mother and Father both had steady jobs and they owned their own house. Plus, it was known even then, he had white blood. Irish as it turned out.
In addition to this, Frazier genuinely was never bothered by Ali's schtick. He thought it was funny. Frazier's refusal to be disturbed by Ali rattled Muhammad.
The only way he could get to Frazier, and to claim the African American high ground, was to employ the emotive "Uncle Tom" phrase. Frazier knew how hypocritical and unjustified it was and it got to him.
Ali always sought a mental edge and went to some pretty unedifying places to get it.

 

propaganda - Ali was raised in a middle class area- never poor - Frazier was raised poor - when he moved up North he became friends with all types and colors - he was good friends with a few Mob guys and partners with a ex fighter mobster- Frazier was no uncle Tom but he had a mind of his own.

Frazier was a very proud man but was not a bigot.

I remember meeting with an old time black muslim who was close with Elijah Muhammad and he basically told me we controlled his mind and got his pocket meaning Ali ( I felt a sadness when he said that) they took enough money off Ali

Did Ali by calling the white man a devil become more black then Frazier ?

Ali had a Grandfather that was 100 % Irish - Frazier was blacker than Ali but Ali sold him to the black public as an uncle Tom - great marketing !!!

 

I admire both: as fighters and as men, for who they were and what they stood for and represented.

Ali was a showman, yes, but he was also a guy who I think intuitively knew his best would be brought out when he put himself far out on a limb and had to back it up.

Yes, he belittled and humiliated opponents. He put a brighter spotlight on them than anyone else could and many wilted under the glare. He also dominated many opponents mentally, getting under their skin and in their heads. (Foreman being the best example.)

He knew how to promote, yes, but he also knew he was giving that opponent motivation and ammunition to work harder, to fight harder, to want to beat him more than they would otherwise. And it made him dig deeper to back up his words and prove to the world that he was what he believed he was.

Joe took it personal, but I don’t think it was personal with Ali any more than it was with Foreman or Liston or anyone else. It was personal in that Ali had to beat them to be ‘The Greatest’ but not because of who they were in particular except that they were obstacles to conquer.

That doesn’t make what he called Joe or Floyd right, but I don’t think Ali looked at it in those terms. After their trilogy, Ali never seemed to have any ill will against Joe ... and I’m not sure he understood why Joe hated him so much because to Ali that was just the ‘game’ he played a level that few played it.