Was RJJ at 168lbs the most unbeatable fighter ever?

How?

 

I respect your opinion, but from what I’ve seen, he’d have had no answer to Roy’s speed and unorthodox style.

He was dropped by guys.

He looked a little methodical to me.

He was slow in comparison.

 

I mean...

He literally got in the ring with him to call him out and the fight didn't happen.

He was ranked 2 or 3 in the division that Roy was in, depending on the source, for 2 years.

If that's not clear evidence of a duck, **** knows what is.

 

He moved up in 92 against Percy Harris, and again in 93 against Sugar Boy.

Eubank put in the best performance of his career against Henry Wharton in Dec 94 and some felt in that form he was the one guy who could've beaten Jones.

https://ibb.co/TwSV3f1

Sad he had to go and lose to Collins.

 

I don't see Hagler outdoing Monzon, certainly not beating Valdez in his final fight, or beating a prime Briscoe so convincingly. Hagler would get the better of Nino and Napoles with less trouble, but have bigger issues with Briscoe and Griffith.

Hagler's weaknesses were that he was very stubborn. He didn't like to change his style in the ring, he made a plan, and stuck with it. When things went wrong, he struggled to adapt, but they rarely went wrong. Someone like Griffith could be a real ***** for him. For all the talk of Hagler being a complete fighter, he never really showed an ability to adapt.

I don't think Hagler would do as well vs Monzon's opposition, but I don't expect him to lose until he gets to Valdez as an older guy.

Monzón on the other hand would basically do about the same as Hagler did, except he'd probably beat Leonard, clearly. Mugabi has no chance, awful style match up. Hearns probably lasts longer than he did vs Hagler but he'd still lose by stoppage. Guys like Sibson, Minter, Roldan and Hamsho don't have a prayer vs a prime Monzon. Can you see Duran doing that well vs Monzon? I can't.

Tough one, Monzon was smarter and a better tactician. Hagler, however, was much tougher and was quicker too. He was excellently conditioned and could be a demolisher when he tried to.

I'd pick Monzon to win, since he could land his rights and change things up. Hagler could genuinely pull a stoppage out if he's lucky, but I don't think it happens. Hagler could also win on points, depending on how Monzon deals with a southpaw who has such a good jab and could zero in on someone with surgical precision in the 1st of the 15th.

It's just a hard conversation to have, since neither fought guys like eachother and both are so good. I however, pick Monzon.

God I sound like a fanboy. I'm not I swear.

 

Hill was very good in 1990

It's a toss-up if Jones could've beaten Reggie in 92, I don't think he would

It was a cop out obviously because the challenges were Collins and Liles

 

Awesome post mate.

I think Leonard would be a handful for him though, might need a trilogy, everything else is spot on.

 

Futch was a genius and his gameplan clearly frustrated Roy to the point when he finally got success in R9 he got carried away and cheap-shotted Montell disqualifying himself. If Griffin had power he would of stopped Jones that night. However he was a limited fighter with a great gameplan.
Rematch no Futch.

-Griffins constant feints so Jones didn't know if he was going to attack or not
-Keeping his right hand high to block Jones's left hooks, a punch which Jones over-relied on
-Keeping the left hand low, to invite Jones to throw right hand leads, so he could counter with a left hook

It was hilarious watching Jones start to lose his temper as the fight wore on.

 

It wasn’t a duck.

It wasn’t as simple as that.

There’s 2 years to look at: 1996 and 1999.


1996:

Roy’s team and HBO sent an offer to Collins.

Collins wasn’t interested, as he was preparing to fight Nigel Benn in a rematch.

When Roy couldn’t obtain fights with Liles and Nardiello for the WBC and WBA belts, he then moved up to LHW late in 1996, to fight Mike McCallum for the vacant WBC belt.

Afterwards, he signed to fight Montell Griffin in March, 1997.

Whilst Roy was in camp for Griffin, Collins’ team made a counter offer to Roy.

Roy was interviewed whilst in camp for Griffin, and he said that if he got past Griffin, his number 1 priority was a fight with Virgil Hill, who was then the WBA and IBF LHW champion. This was before Hill had lost to Dariusz M.

Roy then fought Griffin where he lost by disqualification.

After the loss, the only thing he wanted was the rematch.

By the time the rematch had come around, Hill had lost to Dariusz in Germany.

Roy then beat Griffin in the rematch in August.

By that point, Collins had already signed to fight Joe Calzaghe in October. But less than 2 weeks before the fight, Collins withdrew.

Roy then signed to fight Buster Douglas for $6m, before his father stepped in at the last minute to stop it. He wouldn’t let Roy go through with it.

Collins then retired.

Roy eventually ended up fighting Hill early in April, 1998.


1999:

As per your video, early in 1999, Roy fought a low level mandatory in Ricky Frazier, where Collins was present. After the fight, Larry Merchant gave Roy heavy criticism for his opposition. Collins then stepped into the ring and challenged Roy. Both guys were respectful to each other, and the following day, Roy gave his long time advisor, Stanley Levin the green light to try and make the fight with Collins’ team. So Levin went to work and started negotiations. However, Roy had recently hired the services of Murad Muhammad, in order to try and raise his profile and get him the biggest fights available. And whilst Levin was negotiating with Collins’ team, Murad Muhammad was meeting with the head of HBO, Lou Di Bella. Di Bella told Muhammad that HBO had been heavily criticised by Roy’s recent opposition, and that he didn’t want Roy to fight Collins at that point. Because Collins hadn’t fought for almost 2 years, and he didn’t think the public would be interested. Instead of that fight, he wanted Roy to fight Reggie Johnson who was the IBF title holder, to see who’d become the undisputed LHW champion. But he did tell Muhammad, that he’d be open for a Collins fight in the future, if Collins returned to the ring, and possibly fought and beat someone like Joe Calzaghe.

Muhammad then met with Roy and told him what Di Bella had said. That the Reggie Johnson fight was the bigger fight, to determine who would be the undisputed LHW champion. Afterwards, Roy then went to tell Levin that he and HBO wanted the Johnson fight instead. This left Levin extremely angry, as he’d been negotiating with Collins’ team. So at that point, there was a lot of unrest in Roy’s camp, especially as the Levin’s had been with Roy for 10 years at that point.

Roy then signed to fight Reggie Johnson in June.

Collins then had a fight lined up on Joe Calzaghe’s undercard, for his U.S. TV debut against Rick Thornberry.

During camp, Collins surprisingly collapsed whilst sparring Howard Eastman. He then went to hospital for a scan, and the scan came back all clear. He then consulted with his trainer, Jimmy Tibbs, about his future. After they had talked, they mutually agreed that it would be in his best interest if he retired. So he made the decision to retire.

Roy then went on to fight Reggie Johnson.

 

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14:05

 

He had fights that were over the MW limit, but he didn’t officially move up until he fought Toney.

He beat Hopkins for the vacant in IBF, MW title 1993, and he defended it once against Tate before moving up.

 

Thank you George.

That was a pleasure to read.

 

They were super-middleweight bouts.

 

The Harris fight was for a super-middle title. Sugar Boy bout was made at 168lb.

 

I like your post, but they were available at the same time.
Steve Collins didn't take another fight after the Eubank fight, but Eubank did.
You've got to imagine he was in negotiations with someone.