Was RJJ at 168lbs the most unbeatable fighter ever?

Could have and would have are 2 different things.

Of course he ‘could have’ although Reggie was better then, and Roy was less experienced, with his best opponent at that time being Jorge Castro. And as you know, Castro was a good fighter who had 2 close fights with Reggie himself.

It wasn’t a cop out if he couldn’t get the fights. And McCallum, (even that faded version) Griffin and Hill were better fighters than Colllins.

 

He frustrated Roy for sure, until Roy turned things around in the last 3rd of the fight.

You said he made Roy look silly.

He didn’t.

 

Only technically.

They were above 160, but below 168.

Again, he didn’t officially move up until he fought Toney in November, 1994.

He won the MW title and defended it once.

 

Don't be daft! They were far past their best, Collins would've steamrolled McCallum in 96 and thoroughly outpointed Hill in 97.

Griffin was crafty but nothing special.

 

Hahahaha. Classic.

They were 168lb fights, one for a 168lb title and the other a 168lb ten-rounder.

 

He made him look bad.

 

It was a low level title that he had no interest in.

None of those fights were 168 fights apart from the Chirino fight.

 

How were they available at the same time?

 

Hot take: RJJ was no more unbeatable at 168 than was SSM at 135.

(which is to say, you watch him on film and his eye test makes a damn compelling argument - but a cup of coffee in either case, just a blip on their respective career radars. SSM was at 135lbs for 9 consecutive fights over 20 months, and RJJ had six world title victories at 160 from Toney until Brannon over a 23 month span...but never spending more than a contiguous year at the weight due to jumps up & down to middle and light heavy. Not a significant enough sampling by either one to call them a h2h GOAT, however formidable they may look...)

 

Based on what exactly?

Going life and death with a faded Eubank?

Beating up a shot Benn and Frederic Seillier?

Nobody steamrollered even an old version of Mike McCallum.

Thoroughly out pointed Hill?

Really?

He’d never fought at LHW.

Griffin had more ability than Collins.

 

18/03/1995

Roy Jones Jr beat Antoine Byrd, the same night Collins beat Eubank.

 

What title was it for?

Go and look.

It was a SMW fight, yet he didn’t even weigh 168 despite the fact that he was a huge MW.

Yes, technically, they were SMW fights as they were above the MW limit. But once again, he didn’t officially declare that he’d left the MW division until he officially moved up to fight Toney for his IBF, SMW title.

Why are you arguing, when you know that Roy won and defended his MW title in that time frame?

He can’t have moved up to fight Percy Harris in 1992, when he won the MW belt in 1993, before defending it in 1994.

Again, I’m not saying that he didn’t fight at the weight. I’m just saying that he didn’t officially move up until late 1994.

Nothing you say will change that.

 

Yes, he frustrated him.

He didn’t make him look silly though.

 

You can't be serious! You had a 30 year old tank in Collins, HUGE guy who fought mostly as a heavyweight before turning pro, and who would've been even bigger and stronger at light-heavy. And you have a 40 year old McCallum who can still make 154 without 20lbs of fat and water. It is a mismatch. Remember Collins was the only guy to have McCallum actually run away, and walk through his punches, as a weight-drained 16 fight novice.

Hill was far past his best in 97-98, losing clearly and cleanly to Michalczewski who wasn't near as proven as Collins in the game. Look at the domination G Rocchigianni gave Michalczewski.

Griffin was a crafty little fighter but nothing at all special.

 

It was advertised and announced as a 168lb ten-rounder.

He wasn't a huge middleweight at all.