Do fans have a tendency to underrate fighters that go out on a high note

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Yung Goku, Apr 26, 2020.


  1. Yung Goku

    Yung Goku New Member Full Member

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    and overly romanticize fighters that fight well past their prime? Idk is there a perception that if you leave while undefeated or on a high note that you haven't pushed yourself whereas whenever we look at fighters that are shells of themselves fans tend to get nostalgic about their "primes"?

    Roy Jones obviously is an example of one that fought well past his prime, and I'm not saying that he wasn't godlike in his prime it was more would him actually retiring after the Ruiz win really change his standing in the rankings. Now fans obviously look back on his prime as an unbeatable fighter. Monzon is an example of someone that did go out on a high note but isn't really talked about near as much, though I suspect it had to do with him murdering his wife.

    For an mma example everyone is nostalgic about prime Anderson Silva whereas I know some people that feel GSP left when the competition got tougher.
     
    Yung Goku, Apr 26, 2020
    Yung Goku, Apr 26, 2020
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  2. Zulawski

    Zulawski The Fistic Pariah Full Member

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    I think you have this backwards. "The fans" have the memories of goldfish and the nuance of a bull in a china shop. They aren't critical at all on the whole. Anderson Silva is still a legend in MMA despite not having won a fight outright for a decade. Many probably think he'd "matrix" a modern fighter the same way he did a questionable field of contenders. The hardcores are the ones calling his legacy hollow as he capitalized on a weak field of strikers. Many call into question how much shorter his reign could have been would he have fought Jacare or another Strikeforce middleweight of the kind.

    Of course, hardcores also tend to romanticize and celebrate adversity. They are familiar with GSP's questionable nod over Johny Hendricks and resent him for it. They see his careful management of his return in facing Bisping who acquired the belt in a very luck based manner (not Rockhold's terrible striking defense, but how the fight came about at all). Bisping also defended said belt against a Henderson in a farce which he still almost managed to fumble. How many times do you run into hardcores who say some fighter had a calculated career while celebrating the guy who took the riskiest path and suffered a bit for it? That certainly comes to bear in regards to Leonard vs Hearns or Floyd vs Pacquiao. Even Bisping vs Silva to bring things full circle.

    Honestly, the more you know about a combat sport, MMA in this instance, it seems like the more you appreciate the unappreciated and and try to over correct for the flat praise of others (the general fan). It's the reason you can make a thread here calling Roy Jones Jr a hack and Henry Maske a quality boxer we forgot about. All those lovely contours of history make the myths of the unbeatable giants appear kind of childish.
     
    Zulawski, Apr 26, 2020
    Zulawski, Apr 26, 2020
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  3. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    Quite the contrary imo, undefeated fighters are often the most overrated.
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    George Crowcroft, Apr 26, 2020
    George Crowcroft, Apr 26, 2020
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  4. Yung Goku

    Yung Goku New Member Full Member

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    Which ones? And I wasn't even thinking of being undefeated in particular although of course that's it most of the time just more like leaving on a high note ala Monzon, but yes Ward leaving after Kovalev got a lot of people wanting him to prove his mettle against Beterbiev and Bivol.

    @Zulawski That last paragraph reminds me of Mike Tyson in general
     
    Yung Goku, Apr 26, 2020
    Yung Goku, Apr 26, 2020
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  5. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    Specifically? Marciano, Ward, Mayweather, Calzhage ect.
     
    George Crowcroft, Apr 26, 2020
    George Crowcroft, Apr 26, 2020
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  6. Yung Goku

    Yung Goku New Member Full Member

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    Hm I feel like Mayweather is the only one that really benefitted from having an undefeated halo though, at least on a pure h2h basis anyway, unless you mean in terms of how they're ranked.
     
    Yung Goku, Apr 26, 2020
    Yung Goku, Apr 26, 2020
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  7. zeratul

    zeratul Active Member Full Member

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    Can you give more examples of both cases? The way I see it, if you are not in the mix for long enough, you don't give casual fans enough time to memorize you and it's that simple. On the contrary, if you fight past your prime and even lose, it generates more media attention on your whole career. E.g. Tyson-Lewis fight was the biggest event in sport at that time, so, even though Tyson got knocked out, it got people looking into Tyson's best years, as they reflected on how the fight would fair had it taken place 10 years earlier.
     
    zeratul, Apr 26, 2020
    zeratul, Apr 26, 2020
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  8. Yung Goku

    Yung Goku New Member Full Member

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    Roy Jones
    Tyson, who you mentioned
    Pacquiao, although obviously still performing at a high level got people nostalgic about his prime
    James Toney
    Chavez

    Undefeated fighters of course fill the spot for the others but like I said Monzon had a long ass streak and retired on top but I don't see him mentioned as much. I guess among hardcores obviously he's mentioned, though like I said I feel that probably has to do with the whole killing his wife thing. Lennox also retired on top and got a lot of people salty after not giving Vitali the rematch, and I'm sure there still are people, but now he's highly ranked I guess. It almost makes me wonder though if we as fans feel there's a sort of need for there to be a passing of the torch and when that doesn't happen we feel slighted I guess.
     
    Yung Goku, Apr 26, 2020
    Yung Goku, Apr 26, 2020
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  9. Eggman

    Eggman "The cream of the crop! Nobody does it better! Full Member

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    If jones retired after tarver 1 after beating Ruiz he would be ranked so much higher I have no doubt

    maybe top 5 ATG
     
    Eggman, Apr 26, 2020
    Eggman, Apr 26, 2020
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