Was RJJ at 168lbs the most unbeatable fighter ever?

I’m not struggling with anything.

Mike was good enough to hang with the best LHW’s and CW’s in the world even when past his best.

 

Never been a fan of Eubank's.

You said he's said numerous times that he wasn't in shape for Collins II. He's always claimed he came in at his best for that fight and trained harder than he had since the first Benn fight

 

No he wasn't. Jeff Harding, Fabrice Tiozzo and an unmotivated Toney were not the best guys. Henry Maske, Graciano Rocchi, Dariusz M, Virgin Hill, Michael Nunn - these were the best guys, 6ft3 30 year olds.

 

How is it clear?

I’ve given you the timeline.

It was Roy’s team and HBO who offered to fight Collins FIRST.

Collins wasn’t interested because he had business with Benn.

When Collins’ team made a counter offer, Roy was already in camp preparing for Griffin, with his sights set on Hill afterwards.

Collins then pulled out of his fight with Calzaghe and then retired.

In 1999, Roy told Stanley Levin to make the fight.

It was only after Murad Muhammad had spoken with Lou Di Bella, that he steered Roy towards fighting Reggie Johnson instead.

 

The point was obvious.

When James Toney was old and fat, his skills were enough to see him fight world class HW’s without getting beat up.

He was savvy just like Mike was.

 

Never been a fan of Eubank’s?

Haha!

That’s like me telling you that I’ve never been a fan of Roy’s.

What on earth are you talking about?

I didn’t say he said that he wasn’t in shape for Collins.

I said that he wasn’t at his absolute best.

He’s said numerous times that he was never the same guy after the Watson tragedy.

It took something out of him.

Hardly surprising.

 

Roy Jones and James Toney were as good as or better than all of those guys.

Nunn was faded, and on the same level as Roch.

Hill was faded.

 

Roy and James were also middleweights coming up. Roy carried him and Toney beat him up.

Collins was a heavyweight in the amateurs.

 

He wasn't holding back in that second fight. Clearly.

 

You've given YOUR timeline.

Btw in 1999 RJJ ordered Collins to fight Calzaghe, before Roy would fight him.

Watch any Collins interview from 1995 to today, and you'll see that he couldn't keep Roy's name out of his mouth.
Roy fought Tony Thornton at that weight, whilst Collins was using every breath he had to call out Roy.
Collins had a belt, did Thornton?

You're gonna need to give me hard evidence and sources if you want to change my opinion, because the evidence against Roy is clear to me.

 

It doesn’t matter if they were former MW’s.

They were elite level fighters.

 

For Christ sake Jeff Harding gave him hell, durable and naturally filled and younger. Arguably a draw. Harding was hardly Steve Collins!

I think you're in lala-land.

 

I haven’t given you MY timeline.

I have given you THE timeline.

You are only looking from Collins’ side.

Steve Collins was a warrior. And I have huge respect for him. But the truth is, although he was respected stateside, there wasn’t some huge demand from the U.S. fans and media for Roy to fight him. He’d moved up to SMW from MW, where he’d lost to McCallum, Kalambay and Johnson. Now although there was no shame in that seeing as though they were great fighters, he wasn’t a huge name which was revered. Roy had beaten James Toney, and Frankie Liles and Nigel Benn/Vincenzo Nardiellio had the WBA and WBC belts. Collins only held the lightly regarded WBO belt.

Roy tried to fight Liles, and when he wouldn’t fight Roy, Roy moved up to LHW where he fought Griffin and targeted Hill.

Collins was happy fighting Eubank and Benn twice.

When his team made an offer to Roy, again, Roy already had a fight lined up and was in camp training.

Collins didn’t move up to LHW.

He remained at SMW before he pulled out of a fight against Joe Calzaghe and then retired.

Those are the facts.

Not fighting Collins back then wasn’t some huge issue in the boxing world.

In 1999, it was Lou Di Bella who didn’t want Roy to fight a 2 year retired Steve Collins.

How do you think that would have gone down on the U.S. after he’d been hammered for fighting Ricky Frazier?

If Roy couldn’t obtain the IBF and WBA titles at SMW and Collins was tied up, why would he have hung around, when he had the opportunity to try and target the LHW champions?

Roy was the consensus P4P no.1 fighter in the world. He wasn’t going to put his career on hold for Steve Collins.

I’ve already told you that in 1999, he told Stan Levin to make the fight. He didn’t say he wasn’t interested. He gave him the go ahead. It was Murad and Di Bella that steered him towards Reggie Johnson.

Neither Roy or his team feared Steve Collins.

Mike McCallum couldn’t get fights with any of the Fab Four.

It’s just circumstances.

Everything I’ve said is factual and can be backed up.

 

It’s okay.

I feel the same about you.

 

Murad used to be Reggie Johnson's manager, incidentally. He was Reggie's manager for the Collins fight, incidentally