Rate these guys on your all time middleweight list

I'd like to see some prime Zale footage...

Vs Hostak I can't even tell the two apart.

 

Ra's Al-Ghul,

Okay, he fought Jackson at JMW. But it’s still relevant.

If you have Mike 30 places higher P4P, you can’t have him 20 places lower here.

It makes no sense.

You should rank someone on their resume as well as on H2H ability.

Either way, Mike comes out on top.

He was a better fighter and he has a better MW resume.

A prime Sumbu Kalambay was a fine fighter.

A technician.

They split 2 fights.

He fought Toney twice at MW.

A prime version of Toney. At 35, with many people thinking he’d done enough to win.

A prime version of Herol Graham was elite.

It doesn’t matter if the fight with Collins was close.

Watson was also world class, as evidenced by his fights with prime versions of Benn and Eubank.

Mike beat him easily.

Mike fought dangerous guys who were prime.

Gerald has 2 great wins over Jackson, but who’d already been beaten at 26 by Mike.

Here’s Gerald’s MW resume:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=23&ved=2ahUKEwjV-8bkkovpAhXdSRUIHaMKCbUQFjAWegQIBRAB&url=https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/4252&usg=AOvVaw1-sjBcf5AEsYlMOrXlp_4F

It doesn’t compare to Mike’s.

 

It was early, but I’ve seen worse.

Mike caught him with some great uppercuts and body shots and he wasn’t throwing back.

The referee could have left it a bit longer but Mike had him.

 

Just pack it in, mate. Ra's is immune to logic.

 

If you want to omit the Jackson fight at JMW, then that’s fine.

We can focus solely on MW only.

Mike was a great fighter at both JMW and MW.

No, he wasn’t inconsistent. He just fought other great fighters who were in their prime.That’s not inconsistency. It happens when you fight great fighters in their prime who all have different styles and attributes. The better the opponents, the harder the match ups.

Yes, Gerald beat Jackson too.

He had 2 great wins. But what else does he have at the weight?

Who else did he beat?

Mike was a better overall fighter, even at MW.

Mike had the better overall wins at the weight.

Wins over: Kalambay, Watson, Collins and Graham, are better than 2 wins over the same fighter in Jackson. And he drew with a peak, motivated James Toney who was a hell of a fighter.

Those are bigger accomplishments, even if you think he was better at JMW.

It seems very simple to me.

Mike was a better MW with the better wins at the weight.

He has to rank higher.

 

It doesn’t matter if you think he was past his best at MW. He was still better than Gerald.

He was still a better overall fighter.

Kalambay was a great fighter. They won one each.

Gerald never faced a guy like Kalambay.

It doesn’t matter if the fights with Graham and Collins were close.

Look at the stylistic match ups etc.

Gerald never fought guys like that, with those sorts of styles, whilst they were in their prime.

Yeah, he lost to Toney. But it was a peak Toney and he was 36.

Gerald lost decisions when he was younger.

It doesn’t matter if he had more power than Mike.

Gerald does not have a better MW resume.

Beating Jackson twice wasn’t better than beating Watson, Collins, Graham, Kalambay and drawing with Toney.

Mike did more at the weight. And I’m not talking about statistics like the number of defences, I’m saying that he beat better guys. What he did was more impressive.

You cannot rate Gerald significantly higher, just because Mike lost a few fights at the weight and Gerald beat Jackson.

Your ranking is way off.

Mike was a better fighter with the better overall wins at the weight.

 

McClellan looked phenomenal really against Sanderline Williams, far better than anyone else had against him. The way he set up that right hand knockdown (after finding his range so early against such a slippery fighter) was a thing of beauty. Circled Williams and showed wonderful jabbing to head and body throughout. Williams gave everyone else, including Benn and Toney, all they could handle. He knew his way around a ring as well anyone.

After that one round demolition of Mugabi, I don't think anyone wanted anything to do with him, including Toney according to Steward.

It wasn't until Mike Tyson told Don King from prison that he should push McClellan, that King decided to force Julian to face him with more $$ offered.

Of course his career was cut very short, but blowing Mugabi and Jackson out in about 90 seconds and punching Benn through the ropes in 30 seconds is INSANE when we think about it.

Only guy to ever drop Sanderline and last guy to beat Roy Jones before Si-Hun/Griffin/Tarver. He beat Jones 5-0 in 88 in a Hagler-Hearns type fight.

 

No.

 

Let’s just strip it down.


In your honest opinion, in terms of overall ability, who was the better fighter at the weight?

Mike or Gerald?


Here are their resumes:


Gerald:

Losses:

Denis Milton
Ralph Ward

Best wins:

Julian Jackson x 2
Sanderline Williams
John Mugabi


Mike McCallum:

Losses:

Sumbu Kalambay
James Toney

Draws:

James Toney

Best wins:

Sumbu Kalambay
Herol Graham
Steve Collins
Michael Watson


Who has the better MW resume?

Mike or Gerald?

 

On a head to head, he was far too big for an old McCallum in say 92 but that's not the point. McCallum fought everyone and avenged defeat, arguably beat Toney. He travelled to their backyards because he didn't have a TV deal in America and couldn't sell tickets - He was a world champion and traveling to Italy, England x2, Monaco and Boston (full of loud Irish) to face the best. The world should've been coming to him, not the other way round, but he still got the job done!

Some of these guys were 10 years younger and 10lbs bigger, some had been avoided or even ducked by Hagler of all people, and some were favourite to beat him (Watson, Kalambay II). He was the ****ing man, and for the record I scored Toney II a draw.

McClellan rarely went more than one or two rounds and big defenses against Lamar Parks and Collins fell through. He's not the known proven quantity McCallum was.

 

Now you’re being really silly.

Jackson was better than each of them?

Who are you referring to?

You can’t have Jackson that high just because he was a great puncher.

It doesn’t matter what Mugabi did at JMW, considering that you don’t put any value on Mike’s win over Jackson at the weight.

Mugabi was very tough. But he’d been beaten by a faded Hagler, he was knocked out straight afterwards, and then later by Norris. So Gerald beating him at that stage wasn’t great, especially as he had big physical advantages over him.

No, Mugabi wasn’t a better fighter than Herol Graham and Michael Watson.

Jackson wasn’t more skilled than Graham, he just caught him with the perfect shot.

He wasn’t levels above Watson and Collins.

You are being ridiculous.

Gerald did not fight a technician like Kalambay and an elusive southpaw like Graham.

He didn’t fight guys like Watson and Collins.

He didn’t fight peak versions of James Toney.

John Mugabi wasn’t better than any of those guys and he’d already been knocked out twice.

Yes, beating Jackson twice was very impressive. But it doesn’t eclipse wins over Kalambay, Graham, Watson and Collins, or a disputed draw with Toney.

Mike clearly beat the better overall competition at the weight. And he’d already beaten Gerald’s best wins.

Mike comes out on top in terms of ability and resume.

Your rankings are illogical.

 

Gerald had awesome power.

Nobody is disputing that.

But there was nothing overly impressive about Williams.

Yes, the finish may have been great. But Williams lost to every top level fighter he faced.

There’s nothing great about beating that version of Mugabi either.

 

There was something overly impressive about the way Gerald dominated him with boxing ability though, where noone else had come close.

 

There's no telling what G-Man would've gone on to achieve.

Steward:
"I never had a more talented fighter than Gerald McClellan. Gerald would have beaten Roy again, I really believe that. He had the punching power, he had the speed, he was tall and physical and he had a good chin, too."

 

James was young and fighting every 2 months at that stage.

Sanderline Williams lost to every top guy he faced, including Graham.

If you think a record of 30-2 is better than 8-2-1, then all you’re doing is comparing the numbers.

We’re not debating on statistics here.

We’re looking at the quality of the fighters.

You’ve probably never heard of of most of Gerald’s MW competition.

It’s a case of quality over quantity.

Yes, Gerald has more wins. Why wouldn’t he have?

Once again, beating prime versions of Graham, Watson, Collins, Kalambay and drawing with Toney, eclipses wins over Jackson, Williams and Mugabi.

Williams and Mugabi weren’t better than those guys, and Mugsbi was faded and had been knocked out twice by the time he fought Gerald.

Mike McCallum has a better overall MW resume than Gerald.