Sugar Ray Robinson vs Roy Jones Jr. at Middleweight

Roy was still relatively green the entire time he fought at 160 - he entered his peak at 168 against Toney.

Having said that, in his last middleweight title defense against Thomas Tate I think he basically entered his prime.

I think most likely he'd be too big and fast for Robinson at 160. Robby was a guy who would have REALLY benefited from a junior middleweight division being around in his prime.

He was a big welterweight, but on the small side at middleweight. He would have owned at 154.

 

Whilst I think this is true, I'd say the bigger problem is the fact that you can weigh in at MW and rehydrate 15/20 lbs overnight, where as SRR was bulking up just to weigh in above 147. Around his peak at Welterweight he was often around 145.

Day after weigh ins give him major weight disadvantages.

 

This is true, but I think with modern dieting and training Robinson could be a solid junior middleweight today. He certainly had the frame of one.

He was no small man. He was a solid 5'11, not a stick figure-ish tall guy like a Mark Breland.

 

Robinson along with Monzon and Hagler are the only fighters below 175 i'd give a chance against Jones but i'd still make Roy fave against all of them. I think he beats Ray by competitve UD.

 

I remember Jones was once asked about how a fight between him and Robinson at Middleweight would go. Jones was very respectful and said that, while Robinson was a greater fighter than him and the best of all time, he'd have just been too big for Ray at 160 and would have decisioned him.

I think that's fair enough. Robinson was a career Welter for his prime years, and a decent-sized Middle, but even before his first retirement the signs were there that he wasn't quite as dominant or flawless at 160 as he'd been at 147. Jones was a guy who squeezed himself down to 160 with day-before weigh ins and walked around at (in his words) something like 178, maybe even 180 lb between fights while he was a Middleweight. Jones has always maintained that he was essentially a Super-Middleweight and that's where he was at his best and where his body was at its most natural fighting weight, which again I'd agree with.

He's just too big for Robinson, I don't see what Robinson could do with him at all.

 

Robinson's one of next to none i'd take over Jones at 160. Ray's own speed and offensive brilliance would hold him in decent stead for mine. I'm talking SRR of The St Valentines Massacre. Around the best of him at 160. His offense after being hurt early in the 11th was some of the greatest stuff i have ever seen in a boxing ring.

 

I pick Jones JR to win this at middleweight. UD

 

I just read the quote by Roy that Robinson was too small. I am always surprised when fighters don’t know their history

Robinson before his first retirement fought the Light-heavyweight champion Joey Maxim giving up 15 pounds and winning on all cards. He routinely fought Jake Lamotta while a welterweight.

Roy and Ray are equal in height and reach. Hand and foot speed are equal. Perhaps chin is as well but Rays has been tested much more. It could be that they have equal power but I think Rays power has hurt and finished great chins. On paper it seems like a even match.

But, when it comes to actually boxing skill there is a huge difference and it plays a significant part in a head to head match up. Ray will have advantages in jab, variations of combination patterns, and defense. Also experience. By the time of the Lamotta VI he had 121 wins 1 loss and 79KOs. Roy at the time of the Hopkins bout had 21 total fights. This was Roy’s best win at this weight because Hopkins was a tough contender and proved himself over time to be an All-Time great (actually greater that Roy despite losing to him)

These are the real fighters that walk into the ring in meet, and in this context, I don’t see Roy being all that effective against Ray.

 

To be honest robinson did not look specially big for a welter, he fought even at 135 pounds when he was 20, if you have a good sized frame and 5'11 of height you are not making 135 pounds

 

I agree that Robinson would win, but I'd take a lot more than "next to none" to beat Jones at 160 though. But then I guess I stand in a very small minority when it comes to my rating of Jones. I think G-Man beats Jones at 160, and probably no one would agree with that.

 

I am not sure why people are making such a big deal of Robinson's alleged weight disadvantage when he dominated Joey Maxim, a credible 175 champion. It's not like Jones was a huge middleweight either - albeit he did move up to even win a heavyweight title (I guess if you call it that).

 

Addendum: Seriously, I'd call even the Thomas Hearns that fought Hagler a pick'em v. Jones at 160. There is no evidence that Jones can absorb multiple shots from first tier punchers; and there is no evidence that he can outbox technically sound boxers who are longer and nearly as fast.

 

With modern day training and nutrition, he'd be able to bulk up enough. Like [url]Xplosive[/url] mentioned, the Suga man was not small at all. IMO they were just skinnier back then, but he has the frame of a middleweight.
But although I absolutely love the Suga man, I still see Roy winning, he was just too damn fast and also a bit bigger. The boxer that could have beaten a prime Roy has never been born.

 

WTF are you talking about ?!
There has never been a faster boxer than prime RJJ.

Again, what ?!?
This is a department where the Suga Man is lightyears in front.

Say what ?!?
I respect BHop a lot, but RJJ edges it in terms of greatness, he was undefeated for over a decade (the DQ against Montell don't count).
I'm not even mentioning prime vs prime, cause from that perspective, it's RJJ by a country mile.
In fact, if we judge boxers just based on their prime, RJJ is top 3 all time, along with the Suga man and Iron Mike.