In most sports the current guys are better than previous eras, why would boxing be any different?

How many times do we need to go over this?

Please see post #55!

 

There are two flaws with that graph.

1) Older records tend to be incomplete. Many will be lost entirely. Boxrec, while useful, has many inaccuracies.

2) It doesn't factor-in Boxing's popularity back in the day. More gyms = a greater filtering process.

 

Referees have played a big part in this. Overly sensitive about heads clashing, some barely allow inside-fighting.

 

I feel quite offended by this!

I'll have you know, that I have spent many hours studying boxing history on BoxRec. So many in fact, that I can now name every lineal heavyweight champion from Sullivan to Holmes. In the correct order - and without cheating! How do you like THEM apples?

 

well its not a ram fight right.

 

You're right, of course - older records are likely very incomplete. And the further back, the more incomplete. So there must almost certainly have been A LOT more boxers/fights back during the depression years, than can be seen from the graphs.

However, I don't see, how these graphs indicate a dwindling talent pool over the past 30-40 years.

 

If you don’t want a proper debate, don’t waste my time.

 

Great post.

At the end of the day, most of these fools are only comparing data.

They’re not going to take into account the blocks and the running surface etc. And anybody who compares two men fighting, to a group of sprinters running against a clock from point A to point B, needs to sort themselves out.

 

DirtyOldTown,

He’d simply have to live a completely different lifestyle to the one that he did. Otherwise he wouldn’t have been able to have played at all, let alone at the highest level. It was just a different world back then. But if he could have lived the life of a modern athlete in today’s environment, where he could have played on better surfaces with better facilities etc, that would have made him even better than what he was.

He always says:

“Think about how good I’d have been if I hadn’t have been on cocaine”

Of course he would. But he’s never been kicked like Maradona was. Maradona was exceptionally fast. He could carry the ball at great speed and he could turn just as quick as Messi could. He had very fast feet and very fast reflexes. Like Messi, he was always very quick of mind too.

He had hepatitis in his 1st season and he had a broken ankle in his 2nd season. He was lucky that he didn’t have to retire after Goikoetxea’s horrendous challenge.

Your comments seem to be implying that he wasn’t good enough.

What he did at Napoli was much more of an achievement than what being successful at Barcelona would have been.

Napoli were a struggling team. Steering them to two league titles was a bigger shock than when Leicester won the premiership in 2016. Nobody could believe it.

Lionel Messi is a better overall player than Maradona, because he’s a professional athlete, which has given him him better longevity and more consistency. He’s also scored more goals as he’s played in a more advanced position throughout his career. But in terms of prime for prime ability, he isn’t superior.

 

ok now we have everything sorted out:
Maradona is just as good as messi
Ussain bolt never broke a record
An old Chevrolet from the 50s is as fast as a bmw i8.
And most important jack dempsey koes deontyson wilderury super saiyan 4 in 20 milliseconds at the staredown after the weight in.

Yeah how dare we compare data, instead we should just say random things without any proof or say things so they suit our narrative.
And no one here said that because one guy runs faster then the other boxers must be better therefor. The argument is, that in various athletic disciplines like weight lifting, running, gymnastics athlets get better. And boxing as a sport is highly dependent on all those aspects.

 

Please try to write a little bit less if its possible, i also try to spare you with my BS as much as I can.

Speed: no guys today are simply faster then 30 years ago. Especially at hw, what everybody is talking here about.
Wilder and fury are significantly faster then lewis and even wlad.
guys like haye are even way faster then guys of their size from older days. Haye for example is just so much faster then ali and holyfield. It is a complete different level of speed he operates at.

i mostly talk about hw on here the issue with same day weight in can be talked about in a another thread

nutrition: do you know that prescott didnt eat well? And even if his diet was trash does that make a whole argument? Of course a proper vegan meal with 7 kind of nuts is not going to make a hw champ out of you, but you simply profit from all the different vitamins and knowledge we have today. Back in the 50 a lot of people thought butter and pig meat are healthy. Today we know that fish, oat, different kinds of berrys and so on have a massive impact on your heart, liver, digestion etc. and as an athlete it will be very beneficial for you.

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Just so you see how much system there is to the diet of todays boxers. No one did that in the 30. its a complete different game.

sport science: you know how much sport specific medicine evolved? I can only imagine how many fighters couldn‘t reach their whole potential 80 years ago, because they had a serious injury and no doctor could help with their joints ellbow etc. today there are so many doctors from all other the world that specify in exactly that field and therefor help athletes to reach their maximum potential.

 

What’s the point in continuing if you’re going to be silly and ignorant?

Go and find where I said that Ali would have won and that it would have been easy etc.

I haven’t said that.

I’ve been watching the sport for 30 years and nobody is a bigger advocate of the old adage: ‘Styles make fights’

Tyson Fury, with his huge height and reach and his great mobility would be a huge challenge to most HW’s, and especially one with the style of Ali.

Nobody is arguing otherwise. But to completely write him off by saying “He’d have wrecked him” is absolutely ridiculous. My post has nothing to do with nostalgia. And if that wasn’t bad enough, you’ve mentioned Cooper dropping him with a left hook.

So if you want to be silly, then I’ll say that Ali would have wrecked Fury, on the grounds that he should have lost to John McDermot who was a European level fighter, that he was dropped by Steve Cunningham, and that he’s just recently struggled with Otto Wallin.

How about that?

Cunningham wasn’t a puncher.

He was the same size as Ali but not as heavy, and obviously nowhere near as fast or as skilful.

Cooper was fast and much smaller than Fury, which meant he could get inside like Frazier could.

Although Fury might have beaten Cooper with ease, he’d never have been able to have landed the left hook that Cooper did.

We might as well leave it there.

 

You don’t even know what in-fighting is.

Man, you’re so out of your depth here, it’s painful.

In-fighting isn’t slugging.

 

dude i had amateur fights i know what infighting is. Did you ever see a ring from the inside?