Mike 'The Bodysnatcher' Mccallum vs Saul 'Canelo' Alvarez

Behave yourself.

 

Amazing skilled Mark? Really. The only great fighter he fought schooled him.
A natural Jr.Lightweight that punched like a Jr. lightweight judging by his
lack of KO wins at welter and above. Yet the "amazing skills " of Canelo
didn't win him a round against Mayweather by a couple of the judges.
Please....Leave the hyperbole at the door. He's a good fighter, but nothing amazing.

 

Mike late stoppage.Canelo would stay well away .

 

God forbid boxing dogma be questioned.

 

Not sure if I can comfortably pick a winner. I think It would be a great fight though. I feel that Alvarez is the more athletic of the two but McCallum has better ring smarts

 

Your post was so ignorant people genuinely thought that you were trolling.

I’ll address it over the next few days.

 

I've seen threads on boxing forums where the majority of people legitimately thought that Hagler ducked McCallum. What the majority think about him is of little interest to me in this interest. He's quite possibly the most overrated middleweight ever.

 

McCallum would win this in a good battle. Too smart. McCallum was the tougher, meaner fighter, as well as the harder puncher

 

From reading your opening post, you don’t appear to possess any knowledge on either him or his opponents.

 

If that were true then you would provide some sort of rebuttal but you haven't. You've been stalling with "Behave yourself", "people think you're trolling", "you don't know anything about McCallum". While you're more than welcome to hold whatever opinions you want about me, I'd rather your response have some sort of point to it that's related to the discussion of the thread.

 

I’m tied up on another thread.

I’ll reply to you soon.

 

McCallum wins at 154, Canelo wins at 160. I don't think McCallum was as good at 160, and with the 3 point handicap on the cards he'd probably be facing additionally, there's no way he's winning.

 

DanDaly,


I couldn’t quote your 2 paragraphs, as unfortunately, I didn’t have enough space.

The reason why Mike has been made a big favourite here, is because quite simply, he was just a better overall fighter than what Canelo is. He had everything. He is not overrated. He’s actually underrated. The man was an absolute technician. He was more skilful than Canelo Alvarez. If you don’t agree, go and watch his fights. Go and watch his first fight with James Toney. The man was a master. He had incredible skills, with great timing, great footwork, great shot selection, a great chin, stamina, IQ and heart. He also had good speed and power. Although Canelo is a great fighter in his own right, he doesn’t possess the arsenal of shots that Mike had, nor the stamina. He isn’t the complete fighter that Mike was.

You remind me a little of myself. When I first joined this forum I could never fathom out why Michael Spinks was so highly rated. Because all I really knew of Micheal, was that he’d lost to Mike Tyson in 2 rounds. And when I pulled his record at LHW, I wasn’t familiar with anyone who he fought. I didn’t know of them. So I dismissed them. And in my honest opinion, that’s what you’re doing here. And it was only until I delved into his career that I realised just how great he was, and why people were confidently picking him over my favourite fighter, Roy Jones, at LHW.

Mike has a great resume. He fought great fighters, most of who were in their prime, which also presented him with some very tough stylistic match ups, many of them coming when he was slightly past his own prime.

He used to spar at the Kronk and have absolute wars with Thomas Hearns. Tommy has huge, huge respect for him. Everyone who was there at the time says that their spars were better than most fighter’s pro fights. There might be some footage still available on YouTube. Manny Steward steered Tommy away from him. He did not want them to fight. Because he knew how great Mike was. Manny said that he was one of the finest fighters he’d ever seen in his entire career.

Mike’s win over Julian Jackson was a great win. Jackson was 26 at the time. The fight was stopped prematurely, but Mike was on the verge of stopping him. Jackson then went on to beat the likes of Terry Norris at the weight.

He also beat Donald Curry in just 2 rounds.

Those were great wins at JMW.

To beat two guys of their calibre in 4 combined rounds was very special.

Canelo has no wins at that weight that compares to those 2 victories.

Mike then stepped up to MW to fight Sumbu Kalambay. Now referring to Kalambay as just a decent MW, tells me that you don’t possess any knowledge of him. Because Sumbu Kalambay wasn’t just a decent MW. Kalambay was a fine fighter. A world class operator with great skills. Don’t be influenced by the Nunn fight. And as well as beating Mike, he also beat Herol Graham, Steve Collins and Iran Barkley. Go and watch his fights. Losing to Kalambay in Italy was no disgrace. He then beat him in a rematch.

Mike went to London to fight Herol Graham. Now you need to watch these guys instead of just pulling their records. Because the data doesn’t give you the proper picture. Now look at the trouble that Canelo had with Erislandy Lara. And like Lara, Graham was an extremely talented southpaw. He was a very tough match up stylistically. He was extremely fast and very elusive, with an unorthodox style which had been crafted from Brendan Ingle’s gym in Sheffield. Herol was Naseem Hamed’s idol. He was very hard to hit clean and he possessed a 77” reach. He was very slippery. Chris Eubank went to Sheffield to spar him, and he couldn’t lay a glove on him for 2 whole weeks. And afterwards, he said he’d never fight him. Herol had good wins over Ayub Kalule, Rod Douglas and Lindell Holmes. And he was desperately unlucky never to have won a world title. He’d definitely have won one in today’s era. I’m absolutely certain of that. So Mike going over to London and beating him was a top win. Yes, it was a very close fight. But it’s how they matched up stylistically.

Mike then went back to London and broke down a fine fighter in Michael Watson. Watson had knocked out Benn and then he went on to give a prime Chris Eubank hell at SMW before his awful tragedy. Beating Watson away from home was another top win. Watson had lots of ability and he was big and extremely strong.

Mike also went to Boston to fight Collins. Yes, Collins hadn’t been a pro for long, but he was still a young, powerful world class fighter who had close fights with Kalambay and Reggie Johnson.

Mike was 35 when he first fought James Toney, who’d just beaten a peak version of Michael Nunn, as well as Reggie Johnson. And this wasn’t a version of James who just turned up like he did against the likes Williams and Tiberi. This was a version of James who was motivated and sharp, who fought to his full capabilities. And that’s because he had a huge amount of respect for Mike McCallum. James was a throwback fighter and he was a fan of Mike’s as well as his trainer. Now you can see how good that fight was as it’s available on YouTube. Mike at 35 gave Toney the best fight of his career, with many people thinking that he’d done enough to win. Yes, officially it was only a draw, but Canelo has yet to put up a performance like that.

The best guy Canelo has ever fought is Floyd Mayweather. And yes, he was only young. But he stood off of him and showed him far too much respect.

Beating Erislandy Lara in a close fight, was no better than Mike’s close win over Herol Graham away from home.

Beating an old shop worn Shane or Austin Trout, wasn’t better than beating Jackson, Curry or Watson.

Apart from his win over GG, he has no wins that better Mike’s over the 2 weights.

Regarding the Roy Jones fight, Mike held his own just prior to his 40th birthday. Think about that. We can’t even imagine what Canelo will be doing at that age, never mind him fighting a guy like a prime version of Roy Jones who was 27 years of age.

Canelo’s best win is over a faded Golovkin, which you have said yourself is shady. Again, wins over Trout and Lara weren’t better wins than Mike’s wins over Jackson, Curry, Kalambay and Graham.

Miguel Cotto was a fine fighter but one who’d already been badly beaten by Marg and Manny, and who’d been beaten by Floyd. And he only gained the MW belt because Martinez was shot with his knees.

Jacobs was a very good win, as he has good skills and is a big, strong, fighter. Although nobody will ever class him as having elite level skills.

Again, he tried his best against Floyd, but he showed him far too much respect and didn’t press or pressure him enough.

Sergey Kovalev in my opinion is now finished as a top level fighter. He’s never been the same since his fights with Andre Ward. He lost to Alvarez after his 2 losses to Ward, and he came within an inch of losing to an inexperienced Anthony Yarde beforehand.

Two questions to ponder:

Would Mike have beaten all of Canelo’s opponents?

I think he would have done, even Floyd at a young age.

Would Canelo have beaten all of Mike’s opponents?

Honestly, I’m not so sure. And I couldn’t see him beating the version of James who Mike drew with, not at any age, and especially not at 35.

To summarise:

Mike McCallum was just a better overall fighter. And in a H2H match up with Canelo, he’d have bern faster, he’d have more stamina, he’d have used a bigger arsenal of shots, and he’d have been taller with a longer reach.

I would have to confidently pick him to win on by decision.

In my opinion, Mike has better overall wins than what Canelo has. Especially when you take into account the stylistic match ups, and where his opponents were in their careers at the time, as well as where he himself was in his etc.

Mike has the better singular wins at JMW, with his wins over Julian Jackson and Donald Curry, but Alvarez has the better overall wins at the weight against, Lara, Trout, Angelo, Shane and Khan etc.

Mike has the better overall wins at MW, with his wins over Michael Watson, Herol Graham, Steve Collins and Sumbu Kalambay.

I feel they are better overall wins than wins over a faded Cotto, a faded GG and Danny Jacobs.

If you wanted to compare draws, Mike’s performance against Toney at 35, was a better accomplishment than what most people see as a gift draw against a faded GG, who IMHO, even on his best day wasn’t as good as what a focused version of James Toney was.

Canelo has won at SMW against Julio Cesar Chavez Jr and Rocky Fielding.

Mike has no wins at that weight.

Canelo has a better win at LHW over a badly faded Kovalev, than what Mike has against Jeff Harding. I’ll give Canelo the edge as he was up against a still fearsome puncher, who was significantly bigger than him in terms of height and reach.

Canelo is a fine fighter with a long way still to go. And I’ll be excited to watch the rest of his career play out. But when you have some spare time on your hands, go and watch the brilliance of Mike McCallum. Because if he was in his peak today, he’d be the best JMW and MW in the world. IMHO, he was better than a prime version of Gennady Golovkin at MW, and he was better than Tito, Oscar and Shane at JMW when they were prime. That’s how great he was. He just didn’t get the exposure what they got.

Under different circumstances. He really could have turned the ‘Fab Four’ into the ‘Fab Five’

He really was special, with a fantastic array of skills.

 

Your breakdowns give me a head ache.

Mike lost a decision to Kalambay in Italy.

Canelo isn’t playing with ANY version of Mike.

A prime version of Roy at 27 had to be cautious with A 40 year old version of Mike at LHW.

 

It was a good fight. I wouldn’t have said he was very lucky though.