In most sports the current guys are better than previous eras, why would boxing be any different?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by lynx_land, Apr 29, 2020.


  1. Richmondpete

    Richmondpete Real fighters do road work Full Member

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    The only thing that's changed in any sport is the size and fitness of the atheletes. You can't use the time machine theory because they would just hold unfair advantages over the old times who had less time to train, less technology and over all knowledge of human anatomy. Put a guy today back in the 60s and he wouldn't have had all of those benefits and put a guy from the 60s into today's time and give him all of the same advantages and he's a different fighter all together. It's like asking if the common man today is smarter than Albert einstein because he has a computer and a calculator
     
  2. BEATDOWNZ

    BEATDOWNZ Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Growing up, he was loved by everyone I knew.

    Phenomenal player, who I felt really bad for in the shoot-out in '94 at the World Cup.
     
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  3. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'm talking about durability only. Whether boxers today are massively more skilled than 100 years ago is a matter of opinion. Some certainly are, if you ask me. Can reflexes be trained? To some extent, I suppose - though overall I think training has little to do with it. Not everybody can acquire the speed and reflexes of a RJJ - no matter how hard they train. He just happens to be lucky enough to have these qualities from the start.

    As for durability or "chin"... it's pretty much the same as with punching power! Nobody can really explain how and where it comes from. It's just something you're naturally blessed with - or not! I think most long-time followers of boxing will agree with this.
     
  4. navigator

    navigator "Billy Graham? He's my man." banned Full Member

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    Brutal miss. A player of his caliber really doesn't deserve to have to live with such a bitter professional memory/regret as that. Wouldn't have been so bad if he could've led the Azzurri to triumph in a subsequent tournament, but, hey, wasn't to be.
     
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  5. madballster

    madballster Loyal Member Full Member

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    So most "experts" agree so it must be true? I don't agree with that. I prefer objective measurements. We know resting heart rates of modern day professional athletes are 15 bpm lower than those of athletes 100 years ago. What does that tell us about durability and stamina?

    We know from reflex tests ("reaction time ruler test") that boxers with supposedly super-quick reflexes do not outperform non-boxing athletes. They do *NOT* have faster innate reflexes, their reaction time is very average. In fact, what "long-time followers" such as yourself call reflexes is in fact the skill of reading and anticipating opponent's movements and feinting and hiding one's own intentions. And that skill is trainable.
     
  6. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Is the opinion of the majority the truth? Not necessarily. The majority of Americans believe there is a God... which any sane person of course knows is nonsense!

    What objective measurements do you want to apply, in order to determine if a boxer has a strong chin or not? Does a boxer have a stronger chin, the lower his heart rate is? I've never heard that argument before!
     
  7. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    What’s the obsession with sports science?

    Just because every fighter has access to it, it doesn’t mean they all take advantage of it.

    Anybody would think that every fighter today is a consummate professional.

    Yet they’re not.

    Not every fighter is 100% professional with a great physique.

    There’s guys today who would struggle to fight for 15 rounds, and they don’t stay in shape all year round.

    More durable?

    Based on what exactly?

    Not every fighter is massively more skilled, more durable and fitter from every guy of the 20’s.

    Personally, I’d say the sport plateaued a while ago now. And since then, the sport has just ebbed and flowed.

    It doesn’t keep progressing. We know it doesn’t. Because we know that there’s many divisions today that aren’t anywhere near as strong as what they were 30 plus years ago.

    We also know that there’s many fighters of yesteryear that were better than many of today’s best fighters.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
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  8. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    George could be a time machine player.

    Give him 6 months to live the life of an athlete, no drinking, no drugs, a clean life, and he’d be fine.

    He’d still have the same ability.

    He’d still have the same balance and coordination. The same ball control and pace. The same levels of anticipation etc. Yes, he’d be playing against better opposition, but he too would be better than he was in his prime. Because he’d be fitter and stronger, playing on better pitches, with a lighter ball and better footwear.

    At the end of the day, skill is skill.

    He’d still have his elite level dribbling skills where he could carry the ball past players.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2020
  9. ertwin

    ertwin Active Member banned Full Member

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    No you can train power extremely well. Wilder was no big puncher in the amateurs like tyson and foreman and then became arguable on of the strongest hitting hw of all time. He is way smarter then you guys think, at least with the right cross. Talent is not born its grown and today the tools to grow talent are way better then then.
     
  10. ertwin

    ertwin Active Member banned Full Member

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    this.
    When you box yourself then you know that those supposed reflexes usually are just nothing more then anticipation. You ate a punch 1000 times and when a guy throws it the 1001 time you can dodge it.
     
  11. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    I was a fan of Batistuta myself.

    He was a phenomenal player. But the circumstances are completely different.

    He had some great seasons at Fiorentina, which culminated in him playing in a great Roma side, where he played with Francesco Totti etc, to win the league.

    Diego Maradona didn’t transfer to a great club who ended up winning the league. He went to Napoli when they were struggling to survive with middling players. At the time, success for them was classed as keeping their place in the top flight. He took an average squad of players and changed their whole ethos, where they ended up winning the league, which was one of the biggest shocks in the history of Italian football.

    Regarding, Ronaldinho, he was something else.

    His peak came when football freestyle first became popular.

    So you saw him do things with a ball that you’d never seen anybody do with a football. Just bizarre tricks which you’d never seen before. He invented many of them himself. When I’m bored at home, I go on YouTube to watch his old games, as well as his freestyle football in training etc. It gives me immense pleasure. The guy was a genius. But even though freestyle football didn’t exist back in the 80’s, I’ve watched Diego do things with a football that I’ve never seen anybody do before, which includes Ronaldinho.

    There’s lots of clips still on YouTube with Diego. He’s doing keepy ups with oranges, ping pong balls, golf balls, and rubix cubes etc. I’ve got an old VHS tape at home, where he bounces the ball very high of his left shoulder, and repeats it over 20 times without moving. It’s unbelievable.

    Gary Liniker has got some great stories too. One of them is when they played a charity match at Wembley in the 80’s. He said that in the dressing room after the match, Diego took off his socks, rolled them up into a ball, and then did keepy ups with them about 50 times. He was the father of freestyle football. The man was a genius.
     
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  12. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    I don’t think the average boxer today is as fit as an average fighter from years ago.

    Many of those guys back then lived in the gym, fought every month and were in shape all year, where they could fight at a fast pace for 15 rounds.

    Many of today’s guys only fight 2-3 times a year, they balloon up in weight, and they don’t spend as much time in the gym.

    If you had a time machine and transported today’s so called ‘super athletes’ back to the 40’s, they’d get the shock of their life’s.

    It would take a long time for them to acclimatise.
     
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  13. Richmondpete

    Richmondpete Real fighters do road work Full Member

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    What I meant was now it's not difficult for a guy to carry 240+ and be "fit" because of modern diet, supplements and training. Put them in a time machine and they wouldnt have the cardio to go 15 rounds, make them somehow born back then and they aren't 240+ to begin with
     
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  14. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    If your last line was true on a general basis, then why are there many divisions today that are nowhere near as strong as what they were 20-30 years ago?

    Wilder also needs to grow as a fighter, if that’s possible at this stage. Because as soon as you take away his right hand, he’s like a bird with no wings.

    He’s one of the least skilled HW champions that we’ve ever seen, windmilling away, off balance with no technique and coordination.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
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  15. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'm not saying, that punching power can't be improved at all with training. However, in most cases the training component is second to the "natural" part, imo. Sure you can find exceptions like Wilder (Hearns would be another good example).

    But most big punchers almost always reveal this ability very early on. Joe Louis had it right from the start of his pro career… like many other big punchers, such as Nigel Benn, Naseem Hamed, julian Jackson, to name but a few. And guys like Terry McGovern, Ketchel, Cuevas, Trinidad, Olivares, Wilfredo Gomez, Rodolfo Gonzalez were bowling over opponents when still teenagers!
     
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