Sonny Liston vs Rocky Marciano

Never said that. I have always said They both had great but very different types of jab. Both excellent.

sonny’s jab gave him a lot of time and room to work off because it was so hard. But to have that kind of effect it had to land upon an upright standing guy with a squarer footed stance than Marciano. The leverage is lost punching down. The space required to follow up is lost too.

joe Louis has more of an “up jab”. He could step off it. Against Marciano he used it to get away from Rocky. There was no room to follow up on it. A younger Louis would have been able to time Rocky at his own range with both hands but by this stage all joe could do was getaway.

sonny’s not beating Rocky to the punch at close range, and that’s just where he would be after throwing a jab.

 

It was SerbianLoudMouth who made that atrocious statement, not you.

 

Liston was tested up to a level, but the level above is the one that counts. Nino Valdes was losing fights. Williams? He always went over like a deckchair against punchers. Sonny knew he couldn’t afford to quit against him. Same with the extraordinary Marshal, who was a skinny light heavyweight with thin arms and long neck with a protruding Adam’s apple.

when Mike Tyson was being drilled by Douglas he kept trying. He eventually decked Douglas. He didn’t have the answers that night and he might never have won from behind, but Tyson didn’t quit. And he was hurt every round.

That’s right little buddy. In comparison, Ruddock was a much better fighter than Cleveland Williams and Mike Dejohn.

 

So you admit Liston was tried and tested? The other poster I was debating was in denial that Liston stood up to any adversity whatsoever.

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean.

An outright lie. (shocker) Valdez had won 7 of his 9 last fights.

I knew a shot at Williams was coming. Wouldn't be a Liston thread without it. Williams had 2 losses prior to this fight, only one of them was a KO. I'd hardly call that "over like a deckchair"

Marshall sure didn't go "over like a deckchair" against Satterfield did he?

Did Liston quit against Marshall when he had his jaw broken or did he continue?

That's certainly up for debate. I think Rudock was better than Dejohn but Williams was better than both.

 

Now I know you are pulling my chain! Nobody believes Williams was better than Razor Rudock.. it is a view that cannot be supported. The faith you put in Williams is quite amusing. But thanks for the comic relief.

 

ok, surviving a nose bleed against a fringe guy is a bit different than getting off the floor to win a title fight. Continuing with an injury (and still losing the decision) early in a career is expected unless the guy is a spindly light heavyweight who wasn’t supposed to win anyway.

You really want to go there with shopworn Valdes?

 

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/razor-ruddock-vs-cleveland-williams.641681/ Not only is your statement untrue that "nobody believes Williams was better than Ruddock untrue" but on the contrary votes were split right down the middle. I'm sorry Williams being compared favorably with Ruddock gets under your skin. Unfortunately because they're of a similar level, you're likely to keep hearing it.

 

Love how you down play Liston's injuries as if you don't think anyone here knows the difference between a nose bleed and a broken nose.

Liston in his 7th fight, was facing an experienced puncher, had his jaw broken early and fought 6 rounds with it. Do you honestly (if you're capable of such a trait) think that the average novice would be expected to continue?

You said Valdez was losing fights at the time he faced Liston. This was shown to be a lie.

 

nino lost his most recent fight to a 25lb lighter youngster. One fight previous to this was a shattering loss to an American football player who knocked valdes down for long counts. 3 of the 7 wins were split decision wins at fringe level. So Nino was no longer a serious threat to elite fighters.

it is not a lie because Nino lost his most recent fight. he was fresh from a defeat yes or no?

 

Correct. Valdez's last fight was a loss to a man whom Cleveland Williams knocked out in the first round! Excellent observation. "Cleveland (Big Cat) Williams, who did to Alonzo Johnson what 29 other opponents couldn't do, said today he wants to fight 2nd ranked heavyweight Eddie Machen next. Johnson, 195, stepped into the ring last night without having been knocked out in his previous 29 fights. Williams, 210, took just two minutes and twenty six seconds to wipe that away. Johnson never landed a blow. Williams put him away with a flashing left hook." The "Johnson never landed a blow" shows the disparity between Williams and Valdez don't you agree?

A flat out lie. Valdez's fight previous to this was against a man who beat everyone who he faced. Valdez beat him so bad, he retired and became a professional wrestler.

Were they losses? Yes or no?

1. Yes but you said Valdez was losing FIGHTS. plural. Had you said Valdez was coming off a loss, you would've had a small case. Before you go and try to edit the post, to cover up your lie as you're prone to do instead of admitting defeat, just know I already quoted the post. No need to further embarrass yourself.

2. If you want to go down that route, Charles, and Walcott; two of Marciano's biggest wins were losing fights at the time of their second fight with Marciano.

 

Really enjoyed your response to choklabs misguided comment

 

I appreciate it Noel! You're not bad yourself. Choklab's posts infuriate me, because they are as you said Misleading, unbalanced and flat out dishonest. Absolutely disgraceful.

 

I notice he has a habit of getting booted now

 

Well style make fights but Rocky is not swarmer he is stalker-slugger!Liston was 212 and Rocky was 190lbs at his best and that is 22 lb difference!
Liston is maybe stronger but not harder puncher!
It is not repeat of Foreman Frazier which is stupid to say!
Liston is not even close strong and big as Foreman and Marciano is a lot better and stronger than Frazier!
Foreman>Liston
Marciano>Frazier
Unlike Foreman Liston is not that strong,big and hard puncher and Marciano is better than Frazier in any term:both hands,better power,better chin,heart,stamina,strenght....
It would be not stopped and Marciano would prevail later because he is much better than Frazier and Liston do not have Foreman power and strenght to stop him earlyl!