Sonny Liston vs Rocky Marciano

and Marty Marshall was pure dog**** in the ring.

 

I repeat: Yeah, and?

Marshall has a reputation for KOing a glassjawed fighter and beating a baby Liston, I fail to see how this 8 rounder in the start of his career is truly significant. Especially, when Liston beat him twice in return. The fact is Liston didn't quit with a broken jaw, or in the Williams fights, Liston had heart when he was a hungry contender. The Marshall fight shouldn't be held against Liston anymore than the first Lowry fight to Marciano.

The Marciano 'heart'trump card is something fanboys use so their hero doesn't have to lose in a fight where he's hopelessly out-matched, and at a style disadvantage.

 

Nobody on the Marciano end is arguing it's significance. It was brought up by the Liston side of things as proof he didn't quit in the ring.

Glad we can agree that fight doesn't mean ****!

 

It's very interesting that those arguing in favor of Marciano are labeled Rockistas because we rate his wins over Walcott, Charles, and Moore as good wins yet I'm seeing those in favor of Liston do the following:

1. Argue that Liston's resume of punchers is on the level of Tyson's
2. That it takes a tremendous amount of courage to fight part of an 8 rounder with Marty Marshall while having a broken jaw.
3. Liston had a completely immobilized shoulder during the Ali fight contrary to what the film shows of him punching and defending with that same shoulder.
4. That Cleveland Williams was a better puncher than Razor Ruddock

 

Actually, it's always Choklab and that Serb bloke who critique the loss. I really couldn't have a rat's arse about it.

 

Perfect response!

 

Actually it was Swag who brought it up. I asked him why the Ali fights don't count as examples of Liston quitting and he brought up the Marshall fight as evidence of (in his own words) Liston's "tremendous amount of courage". Literally nobody was talking about the Marshall fight before that. I for one don't think it means **** either way.

 

It proved that Ali could get off the floor and stop a better fighter for one thing.

Liston survived a broken jaw against a guy he was supposed to beat, a much smaller guy, and still dropped the decision.

 

Fair enough.

 

Okay? The guy had a broken jaw and didn't retire, whether he won or lost is irrelevant. Ali was bigger than Cooper, and he was supposed to beat him too. Yet he was dropped and got up. Liston suffered a broken jaw, and got up.

Why is that not hard to grasp?

 

A wonderful illustration of the lengths one has to go to in order to make a case for Sonny Listons thinner resume.,

 

Don't let him BS you into believing Marshall dropped Liston. He's been riding that one for years and zero proof has ever come forth.

 

Against Marshall Sonny couldn’t afford to quit with an injury at that stage of his career even if he had wanted to. His management wouldn’t have stood for it.

There are a lot of ways to look at things. You can decide it was a wonderful achievement to lose on points - so long as he had a broken jaw, or you can make sensible comparisons.

Later when the stakes were higher, things were different. And there are two ways to look into that too.

you can either decide to excuse this in favour of conspiracies and claims that can or can’t excuse the result.

It is interesting that he already was a champion, with a rematch clause in place when he pulled the plug.

And this right after a probable stunt with the ointment in Ali’s eyes didn’t work...

 

So he couldn't quit? Sure, he couldn't quit all the way up until he was champion (when already past prime), the prime Liston in the 50s was hungry and wouldn't quit. Just like he didn't in real life. When he had something to gain he was determined and showed it, you just don't accept it.

I don't think losing a decision to Marty Marshall is a good thing, I think carrying on a fight with a broken jaw is. I reckon that if the roles were reversed and it was Marciano who fought on with a broken jaw you'd be orgasming.

 

Liston stops Marciano. That's the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Get a grip guys let's get into the real world here.