Sonny Liston vs Ingemar Johannson 1959

Johansson is underrated. He was a one trick pony but it was a hell of a trick. If he landed that right hand on Liston it could very well change the dynamic of what should be a Liston win. Johansson had that kind of power. Some people will say that if Liston could walk through Cleveland Williams then he could walk through Johansson. Show me where Cleveland Williams ever exhibited his power like Johansson did. Never happened. Not once.

 

That's hardly fair, out of 100 fights, we only have like 8 of Cleve ever filmed, the majority of them past his prime. But Williams gave Liston a hard time on both occasions. He broke Liston's nose in the 1st round of the 1st fight, and had him stunned and covering up in the 2nd round of the 2nd fight. I've been looking for you, btw klompton

 

In 1959 Ingo was lightning in a bottle. As previously expressed here Ingo turned out to be one of those champions like Liston who for whatever reason was unable to maintain this level as a defending champion. So after 1959 Liston would clearly have the upper hand. Sonny Wins in 1960-1962. Big time. He smashes the swede by that point.

1959 I think Ingo is too much of a dangerous counter puncher for such a front foot offensive bomber like Liston was in 1959. 1960, Sonny was better. But 1959, Ingo was so sharp, this is his year. look at what Johansson did to Patterson and Machen. The two best heavyweights on the planet.

I think Ingo can time that right hand straight down the middle, just like Whitehurst (ingos sparring partner) did. In 1959, when Ingo was as sharp as he was, and his sparring partner was baffling Sonny with right hands, I think Ingo would have had a picnic. Sonny would need to improve from the fighter he wasn’t quite yet to stand a chance in 1959. and Ingo would need to lose that extra second of timing that he lost by 1961.

Patterson really knocked everything special out of Ingo in their rematch. It was a terrible knockout. The fighter Ingo became after this is the one that Sonny can beat. Not the one before.

 

Liston would love this fight. Hed wait for Ingo to open up a little then start smacking him around. Ingos best shots may slightly rock him but definitely not stop him!!
Liston by ko 5.

 

Johansson would have the same chance against liston than Patterson against Foreman, now you can make your own conclusions

 

Johansson was good fighter with tremendous power. I'd make Liston clear favorite here, but Ingo could make this fight even.

 

This is my take if the fight takes place after 1959.

without the trigger hair timing of 1959 Ingo would be doomed.

Had Sonny and Ingo fought in 1959 then Muhammad Ali might have become only the second man to knockout Liston in one round.

 

Why do you say "we"? Do you have a frog in your pocket?

"We" never saw Williams exhibit his power in the way that Johansson did because Williams never stopped a top ten rated fighter in his life. That has nothing to do with film. Johansson nearly killed Machen when Machen was the number one contender. Williams never did anything even remotely like that. The best Williams could come up with was to stop Ernie Terrell on his feet before Terrell was even rated and couldnt duplicate that feat when Terrell became a contender.

 

"Cleveland (Big Cat) Williams, who shattered the title hopes of 7th ranked Alex Miteff with a 5th round TKO, set up a howl today for a shot at champion Floyd Patterson. If Williams ever looked as though he deserved a shot at the title, it was Tuesday night. He took command of the fight from Miteff from the start, opened a bad cut over his left eye in the 2nd, floored him for eight counts in the 3rd and 4th, and was beating him badly when referee Ernie Taylor mercifully ended it 1:32 deep into the 5th."
As was Roger Rischer (who was ranked 9th)
Let's not act like you don't know this Klompton.

 

I agree with you that Johannson's resume is better, but Cleve was a better fighter. He had a great jab, he could box and move well for a large man, he was more powerful than Johansson, had better stamina, and seemed to take a hard shot better. It's not Cleve's fault he was ducked most of his career. Johannson relied on only one weapon: the straight right hand. It was a deadly weapon when it landed, but Patterson proved that it wasn't always enough. If Johannsson didn't have the right hand, I don't believe he ever would have won a pro fight.

 

I’ve contemplated this one over the years and while highly respect Ingemar Johansson, I can’t see him surviving against Liston barring a lucky punch

 

Its nonsense that Williams was ducked most of his career. He had plenty of high profile fights tgat he simply either couldnt win or at least, to my point, couldnt get the stoppage. Look at his record, nearly every recognizeable name took him the distance even among fringe guys that could stopped. His record and his performances illustrate that his power is overrated or at the very least his deficiencies were enough so as to render that vaunted power no different than a bullet without a gun to shoot it.

We can daydream all we like about what Johansson would or wouldnt have done without a right hand but the fact is that he not only had the right hand but also the tools to land it with effect on fighters of a much higher calibre than Williams ever did. He destroyed a prime Machen, Williams couldnt. He destroyed a prime Patterson who was at least a class if not two above anyone Williams beat. The proof is in the pudding we dont need suppose or pretend we lack the film because there is no film of Williams knocking out a top ten guy because he never did it.

 

high profile fights? Liston (twice), Machen, Terrell (twice), Ali, and Chuvalo. A few, but not many. But I've read a lot on Williams thru the years, and I read that all of these guys trainers kept their fighters out of a Williams match for several years.

 

Alex Miteff was ranked 7 by Ring. Ring was a magazine, not a rankings organization. It did not dictate who was an actual contender for the title. Miteff had lost 3 of his last 4 fights when he fought Williams including a loss just six weeks earlier to Chuvalo. He ended his career 8 knockout losses including three before Williams to Billy Hunter, Mike DeJohn, and Willi Besmanoff. Williams stopped him on his feet. Thats your poster child gor Willuans’ power?? Lol.

Roger Rischer was unranked when he fought Williams. The rankings just before they fought were: champ Liston, 1. ali, 2. Doug Jones, 3. williams (the highest ranking he ever attained), 4. Terrell, 5. Daniels, 6. Cooper, 7. patterson, 8. Peralta, 9. Folley, 10. Spencer.

Any organization that rated Rischer is a joke. Hos only halfway decent win at the time was against Howard King who had over twenty losses and was primarily known as Moores sparring partner.

 

Miteff was B level opposition, but did beat Nino Valdes and held Chuvalo to a draw on two occasions. A meager record on Miteff's part, but anyone who can do that is tough, so the fact that Williams stopped him is pretty good.