Best five wins thread. Lineal / Ring Magazine heavyweight champions.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, May 8, 2020.



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  1. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    The trend that we have seen in lists so far, is that people overvalue a champions latter opponents, and undervalue a champion's earlier opponents.

    This is probably because more information is available to them on the latter opponents.

    People have a good understanding of Tom Sharkey or Joe Choynski as fighters, but they don't understand Peter Maher or Dominic McCaffrey.
     
    janitor, May 18, 2020
    janitor, May 18, 2020
    #76
  2. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Maher is not an obscure fighter. You could say the coverage on boxing increased from 1880 to 1890, and by 1900 news paper coverage greatly increased. Will tally up Jeffries at the end of the day and start Marvin Hart's best 5 tomorrow.
     
    Mendoza, May 18, 2020
    Mendoza, May 18, 2020
    #77
  3. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It's true, fighters like Maher or Hall weren't any worse than Ruhlin or Sharkey.
     
    70sFan865, May 18, 2020
    70sFan865, May 18, 2020
    #78
  4. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Maher just narrowly missed the boat, where he would have been a lot more familiar to people today.

    If he had been a few years later, we would have some sort of film of him in his prime, even if it was not of very good quality.

    He would also have much better surviving newspaper coverage.
     
    janitor, May 18, 2020
    janitor, May 18, 2020
    #79
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  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    McCaffrey was 168lbs at his heaviest.
     
    mcvey, May 18, 2020
    mcvey, May 18, 2020
    #80
  6. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Your point being?
     
    janitor, May 18, 2020
    janitor, May 18, 2020
    #81
  7. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Lot of banter for Jeffries, some of the poster didn't vote, but we shall tally those who did. Names may only be mentioned once.

    Jeffries best five wins:

    1 ) Fitzsimmons
    2 ) Corbett
    3 ) Sharkey
    4 ) Ruhlin
    5 ) Griffin was tied with Jackson, but mentioned in more detail so he get 5th place.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2020
    Mendoza, May 18, 2020
    Mendoza, May 18, 2020
    #82
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  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Up next is the enigmatic Marvin Hart. There is not film on Hart, but there is a good amount of film on his opponents, including Jack Root, who looks very good on film. Hart's resume is tricky to brake down as he had a significant age advantage vs some of his best opponents in Choynski, Maher and Ruhlin. Hart won some, he lost some, but I think he has some impressive wins. When the vision in his eye became a problem is something I'm not sure of.

    Marvin's best five wins in my opinion are

    1 ) Johnson
    2 ) O'Brien
    3 ) Root
    4 ) Ruhlin
    5 ) Choynski
     
    Mendoza, May 18, 2020
    Mendoza, May 18, 2020
    #83
  9. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    I agree with your picks on Hart


    1 ) Johnson
    2 ) O'Brien
    3 ) Root
    4 ) Ruhlin
    5 ) Choynski
     
    dmt, May 18, 2020
    dmt, May 18, 2020
    #84
  10. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    Was Hart's win over Johnson controversial?
     
    dmt, May 18, 2020
    dmt, May 18, 2020
    #85
  11. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Yes, but as I understand the thread, we have to accept the result.
     
    janitor, May 18, 2020
    janitor, May 18, 2020
    #86
  12. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    My effort:

    1. Johnson
    2. Root
    3. Ferguson
    4. Ruhlin 1
    5. O'Brien
     
    janitor, May 18, 2020
    janitor, May 18, 2020
    #87
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  13. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    A couple of observations:

    I feel that Root should be the consensus #2 pick, because the fight was for the vacant title. Also Root had beaten Hart previously, and was the betting favorite.

    Ferguson should be ahead of men like Ruhlin and Choynski, because he was a more relevant contender at the time.
     
    janitor, May 18, 2020
    janitor, May 18, 2020
    #88
    Rumsfeld likes this.
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Depends on the source. The bottom line is Johnson was defensive and did next to nothing for the final ten rounds. Hart pressed the action, and without him according to the ref there would have been no fight. Either way a win is a win.
     
    Mendoza, May 18, 2020
    Mendoza, May 18, 2020
    #89
  15. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Ferguson wasn't very good. His career ended 38-25-12, with just 11 wins by stoppage. He was somewhat competitive with Johnson, but that's not enough to offset the numerous losses and draws.

    I think O'brien is better than Root. You could say the Root fight was more important, and therefore a better win.
     
    Mendoza, May 18, 2020
    Mendoza, May 18, 2020
    #90
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