Best five wins thread. Lineal / Ring Magazine heavyweight champions.

Martin-peak Martin was a serious contender
McVea-forget his age, he was off a win over Martin, and was a prodigy.
Burns-Dominated this underrated fighter.
Kaufman-beat decent versions of Gardner, Flynn, O'Brien, Ross, Lang, Schreck
Gardner-peak George had just defeated Root and would soon beat Hart.
Timing is everythinhg when accesing Johnson, the Flynn win was decent too. Ditto Ferguson and Childs. Serious depth but top end weak enough.

 

This is fair.

Personally, I'm fairly ignorant to the HWs in that I tend to not watch anybody pre-Louis really.

I concur with the need for consistency of approach in ranking and comparing records.

I do like the premise of this thread. Assessment of the best fighters that the best champions beat and then I guess our own subjective opinions of not only how good their competition was, but how well the champion performed whilst beating them could be very interesting.

 

One common criticism of Johnson, is that he beat the black dynamite crew when they were green.

While Langford and Jeanette were not major players in the division, when Johnson beat them, McVea undoubtedly was!

They are not three men who should be grouped together!

 

If you want to do well in this thread, the research Gardiner, Martin, McVea, Ferguson, Kaffmann, and Moran.

They will not be the best, but it will be about judging how good they were!

 

I think it is fair to say McVey,Jeannete, and Langford all improved after fighting Johnson.I also think it fair to say that so did Johnson.

 

The outstanding flaw with the Corbett lists, is that Choynski is far too high.

Sullivan at least was the champion when Corbett beat him, but Choynski was nobody!

 

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Yes you are correct! You can't say, well Johnson only beat a 20 years old Langford who hadnt fought many heavyweights in his 64 fights,[ ignoring the fact that he had been a pro for 3 years, fighting class guys like Walcott ,Holly,Blackburn, Jackson,Temple,Jeannette,Barry,]so we can dismiss that win . Then turn around and rate a win over a 21years old Choynski who had fought just a handful of fights[4 recorded,] against non entities as a note worthy victory.Not imo if you have any pretensions to objectivity and credibility.

 

Unlikely.

Choynski was Sullivan's sparring partner at the time, and he didn't seem to think that he belonged in the same ring!

 

I will pen a brief post on each of the fighters that I see as being realistic candidates.

My objective will be to show people how those wins were perceived at the time.

 

The fight that seems to have launched Johnson as a contender was his win over George Gardiner.

At the time Gardiner only had three looses, all of which he had avenged, and he was installed as a 2/1 favorite, with the odds shifting to 10/4 just before the fight.

It is also worth noting that Johnson took the fight just ten days after his win over Frank Childs!

Referee Harry Stuart gave the following to say:

"Johnson has been fighting only about three years and lacks the generalship and tactics that come with long experience."

"His lack of Aggressiveness will prevent Johnson from ever reaching the top round of the pugilistic ladder!"

The San Francisco Chronicle made the following prediction:

"The colored giant does not figure to win, it is true, but his past performances show that he always made a fight, and concealed in either glove he carries a wallop that means trouble if it lands right."

As you all know, Johnson won the fight, and then challenged Jeffries and Fitzsimmons. A year later Gardiner would win the light heavyweight title, and Johnson would challenge the winner of Gardiner Fitzsimmons.

You might or might not consider this fight worth of a spot on your list.