George Foreman the king of the padded record?

In just under 3 years Foreman had a whopping 36 fights. Obviously that's an average of a fight a month or better. He then had one more fight and then took on Joe Frazier.

In actual time he took about 3 1/2 years (and 37 fights) to fight for and win the title from the time he turned pro.

At very rough glances and estimates -

Foreman 3 years and 36 fights

Louis took 3 years and 32 fights
Marciano 5 1/2 years and 42 fights
Patterson about 4 years and 31 fights
Liston took 9 years and 34 fights
Ali took 3 and 1/3 years and 19 fights
Frazier took 2 1/2 years and 19 fights
Holmes took 5 1/4 years and 27 fights
Tyson took 1 2/3 years and 27 fights
Lewis 4 years and 22 fights

So many interesting tidbits in this type of thing and of course plenty of intangibles.

Louis and Foreman almost identical but Louis matched tougher by far.
Liston missed a couple of years thru jail and a ban and was also likely avoided leading to a marathon apprenticeship
Holmes a longer wait than possibly needed due to multiple factors
Tyson's trajectory is insane really


You can almost say Foreman isn't immensely different to Ali and Frazier except that he had a lot of keep busy fights against those nobodies added in between things as Pat implies. You could probably say those two had a couple of tougher level fights in there.

 

Gordon “Pdena” Lanham. He never went pro, but he had a lengthy amateur career and worked as a sparring partner for a lot of top fighters in the 60’s and 70’s.

This content is protected

 

Sweet. Thanks for sharing!

 

Of course is a question in what therms (or what time frame) his record is padded. I´ve read enough about no plans and just throw him in there. But making a champion, a real pro who just won the Olympics, has to be about a fighters progress too. Nobody can tell me Sadler & Moore where naiv like that.
And I say it again: What did George gain (other than wrong confidence) to put him against so many pushovers at the final stage prior to the championchip level? Secure his ranking? Ok, I get that.
To adress this with another question: "Who gave George a real challange prior to Frazier or Ali?" Frazier himself didn´t (unexpected of course), Norton didn´t too. Something like the Tyson-Tillis scenario for a green fighter. Just Peralta too times?
If its about versatility, when you can´t stamp the opponent into ground < 5 rounds, I would absolutely say that Foreman was not prepared for Ali. Even at 3X bouts.
Imho, he missed 1-3 fights against guys like Bugner, Ellis or Terell who would make him adjust and work. I´m pretty sure we could have seen another Foreman in the jungle, more relaxed and picking his punches better.

 

Because Archie Moore and Sandy Saddler were experts at moving guys quickly to title shots? They both had a 100 fights before they got title shots. What did they know about moving Olympians to title shots in 15 or 20 outings?

Dick Sadler, Archie Moore and Sandy Saddler saw George got a lot of fights against a lot of different styles and kept him busy. That's what they knew. That's what they did.

He got a title shot. Knocked out the champ in two freaking rounds. Knocked out the top contender in two rounds. Knocked out a fringe contender in a round. And then lost to arguably the best heavyweight ever.

They did fine.

There was no general plan for moving Olympians back then. Lots of Olympians turned pro prior to the 70s. The guys who got moved quickly, like Ali and Frazier, tended to be guys who had groups of people behind them paying them regular salaries and those investors wanted a return on their investment sooner rather than later.

Same is true now. Guys like Holyfield and Joshua and Joyce get moved quickly and all their fights are on TV. Guys like Foreman and Wilder come up slowly fighting for a dozen promoters mostly off-TV.

George didn't have investors backing him. He fought his way into contention like most fighters did up to that point, by just fighting a LOT and getting his name out there.

 

Actually he didnt really fight himself into contention. He kind of snuck in the back door. The only two rated guys he fought prior to the title were Peralta, an aging ex light heavyweight who was rated #9 when they fought and Chuvalo who was literally made to order for Foreman and who was rated #6. Chuvalo had been unrated until he got that hail mary KO over Quarry in a fight he was losing every round of and had his face turned to hamburger. He went from unrated in the top ten to #6. Then Chuvalo sat on his rating and after Quarry beat Mac Foster he was bumped to #4 and Chuvalo somehow got bumped to #3 based on Quarry's solid win. Immediately Foreman's people jumped on a fight with Chuvalo. Chuvalo was supposed to fight Quarry in a rematch which he most likely would have lost. Foreman's people saw an opportunity to take on a guy who would be nothing more than a bag workout for Foreman and jump way up in the ratings. By beating Chuvalo Foreman jumped from #7 to #3. From there Foreman just sat on his rating. The only ranked opponent he fought between Chuvalo and Frazier was Peralta who was back at #9. So Foreman really had an easy path to a title shot and while yes he technically fought his way up the rankings. The two fights he fought to get there were about as easy as you could come by at the time in the top ten and frankly Chuvalo being moved up in the ratings based on what Quarry was doing while avoiding a rematch with Quarry is pretty ridiculous. So yeah, Foreman kind of had a back door to his high rating.

 

Staying busy and winning always helps.

 

Interesting points!

 

Thats the knowledge of now as you know it happened.
But prior to the upcoming Frazier fight, would his team assume he was indeed ready for Frazier with fighting these in 24 months of 1971 and 1972 after Boone Kirkman?

1972-10-10 220 Terry Sorrell 210
1972-05-11 217 Miguel Angel Paez 196
1972-04-10 221 Ted Gullick 200
1972-03-07 224 Clarence Boone 205
1972-02-29 225 Joe Murphy Gordwin 220
1971-10-29 215 Luis Faustino Pires 214¾
1971-10-07 219 Ollie Wilson 219
1971-09-21 224 Leroy Caldwell 192
1971-09-14 222 Vic Scott 218
1971-05-10 216 Gregorio Peralta 196
1971-04-03 218 Stamford Harris 235
1971-02-08 218 Charlie Boston
1970-12-18 219 Mel Turnbow 246

Thats a lot of fillers.

From the Pires fight NyTimes Oct. 71.

"Foreman Still Learning

As for his own abilities, Foreman recognizes that he's not ready to challenge Joe Frazier for the championship.

“I've got a lot to learn,” he said. “I'm trying to reach the height Floyd Patterson, Muhammed Ali and Joe Frazier did, but I need a lot of gym work and a lot of concentration. I'm trying to reach the point where everything comes right for me.”

Foreman also has yet to reach the point where fight fans will flock to see him. A disappointing crowd of 6,801, paying $39,042, watched his ninth Garden fight, indicating he has lots of ground to cover in the area of popularity, too."

https://www.nytimes.com/1971/10/30/...-in-fourth-triumph-is-32d-for-undefeated.html

Then again, we have it black on white what fallowed in 1972....