Is Carl Froch amongst the top ten SMW fighters of all time?

I think Floyd was at his best as a WW.

I think Jones was at his best as a LHW.

I think Toney was at his best as a SMW.

CW, lol. Do we rank Dempsey as a CW? Rather than a HW? Do we rank Langford as a CW? How about Joe Frazier, Joe Louis. If we're going to rank divisions based on the best fighters who fought at that weight, regardless of where else they fought, it just gets silly.

I mean LMW for example, would I ever favour a fighter over Robinson at LMW? Probably not but I'm not gonna go ranking him number 1 in the division. Robinson also had a pretty decent run at LW, but am I gonna go placing him in my top ten LW lists?

Duran might be the best fighter under 140,but should I go ranking him a LWW?

The thread is a simple idea, is Froch a top ten SMW or not. If you want to include Jones in your top ten, fine, you can do.

I just choose to rank him as a LHW.

 

So you didn't realise it, I thought as much.

 

OK, I'll try to play your strange game.

The following are 9 great fighters who fought in the 160-168 range, who I wouldn't usually list as a SMW.

Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles, Jimmy Bivins, Charles Burley, Bob Fitzsimmons, Harry Greb, Mickey Walker, Sam Langford, Holman Williams.

Wow actually I don't think Jones is a lock for number 1 any more. I don't really see any room for Joe Calzaghe or Andre Ward neither, let alone Froch.

 

What are you talking about?

Roy was at his peak at SMW.

James was at his peak at MW.

If you want to rank James at SMW, fine. But Roy beat him there with absolute ease. So how are you going tank Toney at number 4, but omit the guy who beat him with ease? Ha!

Nobody has mentioned Dempsey.

I was referring to Toney.

I would rank him at CW on a H2H basis.

Why are you making up silly rules what limits yourself?

You could rank Floyd Mayweather in 5 divisions if you want to.

What you’ve done is absolutely nonsensical.

 

You’re the one playing the strange game.

Ranking those guys at SMW is subjective as they never fought there.

Although ranking Roy at SMW is also subjective, he had official fights at the weight, where he easily beat the guy who you rank at number 4.

That’s ridiculous.

Just rank the guys who were official SMW’s.

If you have a guy who beat one of your top fighters with ease whilst being at his absolute peak, he has to also be there.

 

I'm talking about where I rank fighters.

I've already said where I think Jones and Toney where at their best.

As for how can I rank Toney at SMW and not Jones, the answer is twofold really. 1stly because I rank Jones as a LHW, like I've already said. And tangentially just because someone lost easily doesn't mean one can be ranked and not the other. For example I'm sure you would consider Emile Griffiths a great MW, but not Hurricane Carter.

Yes I mentioned Dempsey.

I know you were referring to Toney.

Brilliant.

I find it easier ranking fighters in the division I felt they were their best, I'm sure I've said this already.

I could rank Sugar Ray Robinson in 5 divisions if I wanted to as well.

It doesn't have to make sense to you, all I've asked you is if you consider Froch a top ten SMW.

 

I'm playing no game, I'm asking if Froch is a top ten SMW.

He was the one who said people who fought in the range 160-168 so you'll need to take that up with him I'm afraid.

I also think it's ridiculous, but that's what he said.

Try telling him that.

Is that really the case? Do I have to rank Schmelling above Louis at HW? Do I have to rank Carter above Griffiths at MW?

 

I’ve never heard anything as ridiculous.

Limiting yourself to only ranking one guy at one weight is the silliest thing I’ve ever heard.

You’re seriously telling me that because of the ridiculous rule you’ve imposed on yourself, that you couldn’t even rank Roy in the top 20 at SMW?

And how can Toney have been at his best at SMW, when he was in better shape at MW where he beat better fighters?

Bizarre.

 

All this has previously been addressed and I feel it's reached a circular point now.

Back to the matter at hand, do you class Froch amongst the top ten SMW fighters, use whatever criteria you want, I won't force my opinion on you.

 

No, you don’t have to rank Schmelling over Louis.

Why would you?

The circumstances are obviously different.

 

You haven’t addressed it.

Toney was clearly a better MW than he was a SMW.

 

I was just responding to this restriction you placed "If you have a guy who beat one of your top fighters with ease whilst being at his absolute peak, he has to also be there."

Back to the matter at hand, do you class Froch amongst the top ten SMW fighters, use whatever criteria you want, I won't force my opinion on you.

 

All this has previously been addressed and I feel it's reached a circular point now.

Back to the matter at hand, do you class Froch amongst the top ten SMW fighters, use whatever criteria you want, I won't force my opinion on you.

 

Stop twisting things.

You know why I said what I did.

Louis went 1-1 and they both fought in the same division.

Roy easily beat Toney, he was at his peak, and he had a better resume at the weight.

Toney was better at MW.

Ranking Toney as a top 4 SMW, whilst omitting Roy, is absolutely ridiculous.

 

I can’t even debate the subject with you.

Your criteria is nonsensical.